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Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

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Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can do whatever they want but we can comment on whether they're accomplishing what they think they are or if they're creating a culture of closed dialog. When multiple major companies start taking similar policies for manipulating content we can and should call out the trend if for no other reason than to discuss its pros and cons.

No-one's saying you can't discuss it. But where's the discussion? I just don't see how you one can say "company A has no right to decide what appears on company A's servers" without following up with some watertight legal or moral reason why this should not be the case. Of course they should be able to.

The discussion is in this thread. You replied to another of my comments where I spell out why I think this is a bad idea.

Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#22

One man's "extremist" video is another man's political views. Where does it stop? Does a video supporting Trump become an extremist video if enough people complain about it? What about a video that shows you how to take apart a pistol for cleaning?

The problem is that current social media software just makes it too easy for extremist bubbles to form. There is no feedback, no discussion, no diffusion, no guiding culture and plenty of false information spread by people who would be unable to publish anything to larger audiences if it wasn't practically for free. To a certain extent, economic systems do filter out people who are challenged at seeking truth. Intern…

But people not only "bubble" themselves, Google and Facebook (everything personalised to one's liking) heavily encourage that, so using the "bubble effect" as justification for removing radical content is really strange.

Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's that company's site then I don't see who else has any business getting involved. Do you want someone telling you what (legal) content you can or can't show? Why?

Why do people confuse legality with morality? I can't legally stop Youtube from censoring videos. But I can criticize the practice, think it's unethical, or be concerned about the consequences.

I'm not confusing the concepts. And I'm not stopping you from saying what you want. I don't see the point though. There's no content there.

"This company is legally allowed to deny random user #24232's attempts to get us to stream video #198284, but I don't agree with that; I think they should be allowed to upload it". Well, so what? Who cares?

If you felt that strongly about it - not just "i'm going to type a really angry comment about it" strongly but "actually do something about it" strongly then you'd be hosting content yourself. Or at the very least trying to show why it's so important that this particular company should be hosting it. Or you could find another company which would host it and tell people they should be using that site instead. A lot of the complaints I read about freedom and censorship just seems like empty posturing about what companies should or shouldn't do. It's just lazy. These companies only do it at all to make money. Your statements about whether a company should or shouldn't host something would be better phrased as "this company should be hosting this video because it will make them more money". Of course, with a lot of this content the opposite is likely true; complaints from advertisers, users etc will cost them more money (and hassle) than any money they'd make from the average video. It's time to stop thinking of facebook, youtube etc as being a social media version of the First Amendment and more like a conservative pension fund.

Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#24
Not sure if this a good thing they would just move further underground vs. allowing it to continue and flag these accounts/send notice to law enforcement and the FBI. They supposedly track us anyway hopefully they are tracking these degenerates more then sally sue saying how much she loves joe weiner.

Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, there is a fine line and it should not be decided by companies.

If it's that company's site then I don't see who else has any business getting involved. Do you want someone telling you what (legal) content you can or can't show? Why?

Youtube, Facebook, Twitter all loudly trumpeted their attempts to assist "free speech", especially during the Arab Spring.

And they were only doing that when what they were doing was going along with the cultural democratic zeitgeist at the time.

If they were more open about "Hey, we're providing you a free service, we can shut you down if you don't conform to public opinion" that's fine also. But you can't have it both ways.

Either you support the free expression of unpopular opinions, or you reserve the right to censor anything at all you find objectionable. You can't say "I support expressing opinions, as long as I approve of them, and I support freedom!"

Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#26

One man's "extremist" video is another man's political views. Where does it stop? Does a video supporting Trump become an extremist video if enough people complain about it? What about a video that shows you how to take apart a pistol for cleaning?

The problem is that current social media software just makes it too easy for extremist bubbles to form. There is no feedback, no discussion, no diffusion, no guiding culture and plenty of false information spread by people who would be unable to publish anything to larger audiences if it wasn't practically for free. To a certain extent, economic systems do filter out people who are challenged at seeking truth. Intern…

That sounds like a different issue, really. Do you mean that it is an argument for classifying videos as "extremist" and disallowing them?

Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#27
Google, Facebook, and especially Twitter are used by terrorist organisations for recruitment and propaganda. These videos brainwash young people into hatred of the west, incite them to leave their countries to go join a war that is not theirs, polarize, and are directly responsible for suicide attacks.

Sure, information wants to be free, and all that cyberpunk jazz. At what cost? Apparently at the cost of innocent lives. These companies are directly responsible for giving these terrorists a platform. The free speech-apologists are indirectly responsible for fostering fertile ground for these terrorists.

Yes... blocking this information will also block innocent information. But I rather see that, than see more innocent lives lost. I say: chase them underground. This makes more clear the difference between a real jihadist with bad intentions, and a pious person slowly being brainwashed, because their feeds show nothing but dead children being pulled from rubble, Anwar al-Awlaki propaganda, and anti-Semitic hoaxes.

Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "extremist content" you mean religious fanatics beheading people, or calling people to arms, or giving tips on producing bombs or whatever, then you are entitled to treat this as "unpopular ideas" which "need defending in a free society" or whatever, but don't be surprised if sane, rational people take a somewhat different view and decide they don't want to spread hatred, nor leave themselves open to lawsuits f…

I'm not talking about videos of beheadings (although there's a case for keeping things like that around too to help educate people). I'm talking about suppression of everyday right wing viewpoints. Things like this: http://gizmodo.com/former-facebook-workers-we-routinely-supp... For context, I'm not right-wing myself but absolutely object to censoring content based on political viewpoints such as this.

From reading that, the only criticism that seems sane and fair is that they should have chosen a different string to "trending"; "recommended" perhaps, or "curated". My expectations that i'm going to receive a much-needed education in some topic from occasionally clicking on the "trending" link on facebook aren't especially high; perhaps yours are a little misplaced if present?

Also, I note that that article states that other "curators" denied such a bias exists. Facebook have denied such activities. Ok, being sceptical, they would say that. But it could be bullshit spewed by an ex-exmployee So, where's the study? The data? How do we show whether or not there is a bias, assuming you care enough to investigate? It's just more conspiracy theories and "typing" isn't it.

Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people confuse legality with morality? I can't legally stop Youtube from censoring videos. But I can criticize the practice, think it's unethical, or be concerned about the consequences.

I'm not confusing the concepts. And I'm not stopping you from saying what you want. I don't see the point though. There's no content there. "This company is legally allowed to deny random user #24232's attempts to get us to stream video #198284, but I don't agree with that; I think they should be allowed to upload it". Well, so what? Who cares? If you felt that strongly about it - not just "i'm going to type a really…

>If you felt that strongly about it - not just "i'm going to type a really angry comment about it" strongly but "actually do something about it" strongly then you'd be hosting content yourself.

Or one could exploit the technicals of such platforms and while increasing the costs for such platforms in engaging in such behavior. Like exploiting oauth keys, public wifi networks, shoddy encryption, etc, to upload/modify content on behalf of "acceptable" users/accounts or engage in a number of interactions on such platforms in ways one wants to without the explicit permission that is not protected or enforced by such technical implementations. There's a lot of creativity to be had beyond self hosting.

The companies just want to make a profit, sure, but not every "user" has to care about that just as the companies don't give shit about the users freedoms. Plenty of jurisdictions where IP addrs are assigned in the world that would turn a blind eye to such actors who are acting agaisnt such platforms.

Re: Google, Facebook quietly move toward automatic blocking of “extremist” videos

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's that company's site then I don't see who else has any business getting involved. Do you want someone telling you what (legal) content you can or can't show? Why?

Youtube, Facebook, Twitter all loudly trumpeted their attempts to assist "free speech", especially during the Arab Spring. And they were only doing that when what they were doing was going along with the cultural democratic zeitgeist at the time. If they were more open about "Hey, we're providing you a free service, we can shut you down if you don't conform to public opinion" that's fine also. But you can't have it b…

>You can't say "I support expressing opinions, as long as I approve of them, and I support freedom!"

Yeah, they can say that, but reality doesn't have to conform to such when the chickens come home to roost :P

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