I really want to know how the conversation went with the folks in the control group.
"Hey, we're doing a study where we give money to a bunch of people... Not you, though."
Ha!
YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
61–70 of 251 posts
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hope with a little thought, you can come to see the difference between formally investing in a startup which is trying to get off the ground, and handing someone an income no questions asked... To put it in simple terms, you get what you pay for. If you invest in someone's startups, they'll deliver a startup (or fail); if you invest in someone's lifestyle, they'll deliver a lifestyle (or fail). It's what makes a br…
> To put it in simple terms, you get what you pay for. If you invest in someone's startups, they'll deliver a startup (or fail); if you invest in someone's lifestyle, they'll deliver a lifestyle (or fail). Whether this is true or not is exactly what needs to be figured out. So far, this is just a prejudice. > When a programmer becomes homeless and needs money, then that money is different from when someone who got ou…
one of the great business discoveries of the past few hundred years is that people respond to incentives. I won't respond to the rest of your comments.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#63Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Along with the daily fish, does it makes sense to provide some sort of vocational training that an otherwise healthy person can take advantage of? If a person was not able to take advantage of early education for whatever reason, but is currently physically healthy, there is still opportunity to provide for himself and…
> Maybe even a reversal of the automation movement in favor of using basic labor for many repetitive tasks in order to achieve this altruistic goal. Because that's really what we want in the 21st century: human machine cogs like we had in the 19th. No, let's let robots do robot things and we don't need humans to "compete" with them. Let's let humans do more human (and humane) oriented tasks.
"Let's let humans do more human (and humane) oriented tasks."
The definition of "humane" keeps shifting over time and will always be a matter of perspective.
To share a personal story, my father was unemployed while I was in college. Within a few months he looked like he had aged 10 years. Several months later he took a part time job as a landscaper and he started recovering.
I remember coming home from college once, driving to his work site and watching him push a lawnmower until he had a break in his work. This was a man that used to wear a suit and tie and commute to the city every day. Yet as I watched him push a lawnmower, I never felt more proud of him. He introduced me to his co-workers and it was the first time I had seen him smile in nearly a year. Several months later he was able to find gainful employment.
One could argue the isolation and lethargy caused by long term unemployment is more damaging mentally and physically than most labor intensive jobs. Moreover, society needs rungs in the ladder of economic advancement and it is human nature to find value in work and being part of a team.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#64I don't understand how the math on basic income is supposed to work. If we gave this amount of money to every person in the US it would cost $7.2 Trillion dollars, roughly double the entire US federal budget. How is this supposed to work? Do only certain people qualify for basic income?
Imagine that the money comes from no where. We have capabilities to offer people some things that they probably aren't capable of buying. Like say better food, more electronics, better homes, etc., Instead of expecting everyone to work to "earn" their living, we can instead guarantee some basic standards of living by giving everyone money that comes from no where. It just requires us to rethink productivity and econo…
I don't think robots change anything. Robots increase efficiency of human workers, they don't replace them entirely. Netflix and Redbox are highly automated, but they still have human workers; just fewer than Blockbuster did.
Robots that don't need humans is science fiction for the foreseeable future. They are not producing output from nothing; they are just tools that amplify the productivity of human workers.
This has been happening for hundreds of years with new technologies that improve efficiency.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#65I don't understand how the math on basic income is supposed to work. If we gave this amount of money to every person in the US it would cost $7.2 Trillion dollars, roughly double the entire US federal budget. How is this supposed to work? Do only certain people qualify for basic income?
Most basic income recommendations are somewhere south of $1,500-$2,000 a month.
But no, every citizen qualifies. That's the basic part.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maybe even a reversal of the automation movement in favor of using basic labor for many repetitive tasks in order to achieve this altruistic goal. Because that's really what we want in the 21st century: human machine cogs like we had in the 19th. No, let's let robots do robot things and we don't need humans to "compete" with them. Let's let humans do more human (and humane) oriented tasks.
"Let's let humans do more human (and humane) oriented tasks." The definition of "humane" keeps shifting over time and will always be a matter of perspective. To share a personal story, my father was unemployed while I was in college. Within a few months he looked like he had aged 10 years. Several months later he took a part time job as a landscaper and he started recovering. I remember coming home from college once,…
Is landscaping not employment?
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
The former. The latter is a racist caricature of welfare.
Not racist, but perhaps a bit too coarse. I don't really consider BI to be welfare though. It's not need based, and generally has more possible upsides to it than welfare. Like being able to start a business with the money. Point is it could be the wrong direction. We don't really know yet how it should be implemented. Experiments like this are what is going to tell us.
It is textbook "welfare". It just that it fits your notion of being more classy then other kinds of welfare.
"Welfare" is in the US Constitution.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#68Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Along with the daily fish, does it makes sense to provide some sort of vocational training that an otherwise healthy person can take advantage of? If a person was not able to take advantage of early education for whatever reason, but is currently physically healthy, there is still opportunity to provide for himself and…
What happens when we create fishing robots that do the work for all of men?
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#69I don't understand how the math on basic income is supposed to work. If we gave this amount of money to every person in the US it would cost $7.2 Trillion dollars, roughly double the entire US federal budget. How is this supposed to work? Do only certain people qualify for basic income?
Most basic income recommendations are somewhere south of $1,500-$2,000 a month. But no, every citizen qualifies. That's the basic part.
Universal is the "every citizen" part
Basic is the "only enough to subsist on" part.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Let's let humans do more human (and humane) oriented tasks." The definition of "humane" keeps shifting over time and will always be a matter of perspective. To share a personal story, my father was unemployed while I was in college. Within a few months he looked like he had aged 10 years. Several months later he took a part time job as a landscaper and he started recovering. I remember coming home from college once,…
Is landscaping not employment?
It wasn't "gainful" employment because of schedule variabilities. Beside, the PP is arguing against the employment value of "cog" type jobs that are easily automated.