11–20 of 46 posts
London is and will be the start-up hub. Barcelona is also is a good place to start a business, but London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that.
I've been living in Berlin since 3 years ( doing freelance web-development & my own "entrepreneurship" adventures ). IMHO Berlin might sound cool as a startup hub, but there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low than average. It's true that Berlin is cheaper than London ( and overall Germany ), but definitely is not so cheap to…
> there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low. Exactly. You can't whine about the lack of talent and at the same time offer 50K-60K EUR to senior engineers... I'd say, "cheap labour" is (was?) the main reason one might find Berlin attractive.
For an outsider to come to Germany and attempt to set up a life there from scratch, they would need at least 60-70K (for medium towns) and at least 80-90K for places like Munich, Stuttgart or Frankfurt, probably even more. These are the numbers from several years ago, today everything has become much more expensive. And for a family person even more than that.
Speaking from experience, I lived and worked in Germany for several years, and eventually I had to leave. One of the main reasons was the low payment, I was basically struggling to make the ends meet (with my modest salary of only 40K). In the end I decided I had better things to do with my time and returned home. I am aware of other people who finished their studies, had a look at the local job market, did the math and didn't even bother to try things out.
The other reason that pushes talent away from the German market is lack of recognition. There is some unhealthy division of labor that is prevalent in German companies. Basically, native Germans are deemed to be the brain center of the entire operation and foreign specialists are regarded as grunt workers who have little say in the process or influence over things (as well as practically no opportunities to rise up in the ranks). I can't see any real talent being enticed by this general framework.
As a resume, German companies need to pay much better and need to open up to other people and other cultures, if they want to become a real startup hub. You can't build a rich and vibrant place full of progressive ideas around a close-minded mentality and with people trying to survive on a diet. With the present state of things, they might trick some talent into joining on a case-by-case basis but most likely that relationship will not last.
Do I count myself as a talent? I really can't say. I'm an educated person (I have both Russian and German academic degrees), also enthusiastic and entrepreneurial type, full-stack developer, I can do complete projects and have ideas of my own which I've been trying to turn into my own products. I suppose I could have contributed a lot in a receptive environment, but my experience was that nobody really needed any unsolicited input or contribution, you just implement the things as you're told and the thinking is done by the other guys. So I took my ideas elsewhere.
This all truly is a shame, because on the whole Germany is a fantastic country with lots of nice and smart people. Yet there are certain [mental] barriers that prevent it from becoming something more. I very much hope people eventually remove those obstacles and then the IT industry will begin to flourish in Germany.
And yes, Berlin really is a cool place to live in. If it were to become a startup hub, then it would be just awesome.
London. Not Berlin. Berlin is affordable but that's it. You won't find the best people, the best teams and a good legal framework. The UK has a better legal system. The UK Ltd. is way superior to the German Ltd. and soon they will move away from the EU inherited laws which are too much market regulating. Especially consumer protection and labour law are just a big bummer for many and for startups in particular. Besid…
You are going to have to abide by those "bummer" consumer protection laws if you are going to sell goods or services to the common market which coincidentally will become harder if the UK really decides to go forth with this lunacy.
If you're dealing directly with consumers then yes. If it's B2B then no, you won't have to. And there are lots of startups offering services for businesses only.
London is and will be the start-up hub. Barcelona is also is a good place to start a business, but London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that.
> London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that. Actually, quite likely it will. One of the main arguments of the "Leave" campaign was curtailing immigration as in effectively reducing it to zero. Now, of course this isn't actually possible and Farage and others are already sheepishly back-pedaling on most of their bold claims. If this whole Brexit affair is supposed to make any remote se…
1. When have politicians ever followed through with a promise they made?
2. Not even the Brexit bunch are stupid enough to intentionally cripple the economy, especially as immigration was an issue for a demographic of voter the Tories actually care nothing about.
What the UK could do is put more restrictions on migrants without a job and what in work benefits they can access.
Reforms to benefits for migrants were a part of the deal Cameron got from the EU earlier this year -- which is now void -- so Brexit really changes nothing there. Maybe the UK could be stricter with migrants out of work and still get the trade deals.
I've been living in Berlin since 3 years ( doing freelance web-development & my own "entrepreneurship" adventures ). IMHO Berlin might sound cool as a startup hub, but there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low than average. It's true that Berlin is cheaper than London ( and overall Germany ), but definitely is not so cheap to…
> there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low. Exactly. You can't whine about the lack of talent and at the same time offer 50K-60K EUR to senior engineers... I'd say, "cheap labour" is (was?) the main reason one might find Berlin attractive.
That being said, I'm all for higher wages in Berlin and happy to see that some companies (like mine, SoundCloud, Zalando, ...) are paying quite a bit above market average to attract talent.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low. Exactly. You can't whine about the lack of talent and at the same time offer 50K-60K EUR to senior engineers... I'd say, "cheap labour" is (was?) the main reason one might find Berlin attractive.
With a 60K salary you can live anywhere in Berlin (I'm 2 minutes from my office, in the most expensive part of the city). Many people mention London in this thread and even assuming a 60% raise (not impossible but not so easy either from what I've seen) I'm not sure I could live 2 minutes from work in central London. When I interviewed with Palantir they were offering 700 GBP/month to people who live within 15 minute…
What is more interesting is that around EU prices of cars / consumer electronics, etc is relatively the same [1]. Not to mention airplane tickets, holidays which also cost the same in London and Berlin, but guys from London can spend on these more.
As a summary IMHO, having a small rent doesn't mean that competition rules shouldn't apply for Berlin and it's talent pool. From my perspective it looks like they don't. Founders put average salaries for their teams in their projection plans and in the end have their hands tied, because "no budget for 80k+ developer". It's a bit sad. Kudos to your companies ( exclude Zalando - sorry ) for putting more money for employees, nevertheless I consider them settled companies already, since they are huge.
[1] : http://www.iclarified.com/55272/iphone-6-prices-around-the-w...
It's right there, many big companies already have their offices there, English is the official spoken language, it is basically a far as uk to reach from the point of view of any European citizen, and it is cheaper (I guess).
Taxation is lower BUT actually enforced: there is no such thing as City of London corporation, isle of man or crap like that.
I guess it is less "developed" than London, but becoming the next European tech hub might be a great drive for development.
Dublin ? It's right there, many big companies already have their offices there, English is the official spoken language, it is basically a far as uk to reach from the point of view of any European citizen, and it is cheaper (I guess). Taxation is lower BUT actually enforced: there is no such thing as City of London corporation, isle of man or crap like that. I guess it is less "developed" than London, but becoming th…
For example, bus/subway stops are only announced in German, not in English.
In Milan, Italy, bus and subway stops are announced in both Italian and English, public transport works very well in my opinion.
It's a pity that doing business in Italy is basically a rat race, taxation is ridiculously high (compared to the services and services level you get) and there is a crazy bureaucracy, otherwise Milan would be an awesome place for a tech hub.
I've been living in Berlin since 3 years ( doing freelance web-development & my own "entrepreneurship" adventures ). IMHO Berlin might sound cool as a startup hub, but there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low than average. It's true that Berlin is cheaper than London ( and overall Germany ), but definitely is not so cheap to…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
With a 60K salary you can live anywhere in Berlin (I'm 2 minutes from my office, in the most expensive part of the city). Many people mention London in this thread and even assuming a 60% raise (not impossible but not so easy either from what I've seen) I'm not sure I could live 2 minutes from work in central London. When I interviewed with Palantir they were offering 700 GBP/month to people who live within 15 minute…
Putting it that way it means that Berlin is a cheap city to rent an apartment. You are totally right about that. What is more interesting is that around EU prices of cars / consumer electronics, etc is relatively the same [1]. Not to mention airplane tickets, holidays which also cost the same in London and Berlin, but guys from London can spend on these more. As a summary IMHO, having a small rent doesn't mean that c…