Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum • Hacker News Board

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#31

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:20 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #20

crdoconnor wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won't, though. The EU elites want to discourage other countries from leaving. If they compromise then others will follow in the UK's path in order to extract concessions.

The main problem is that the British don't even know what to ask for. When examined closely, there really isn't anything actually that wrong about the EU. They could've gotten a lot more in the recent negotiations but nobody knows what that should be. The only specific grievance is EU migration and that just happens to be one of the four fundamental principles.

Ask a poor Greek who dutifully paid their taxes now struggling on 80 euros a week who can't get medicines if there's anything wrong with the EU.

The EU's sheer brutality towards Greece is one of the reasons I abstained. They didn't have a democratic mandate to do that and the institution itself is being gradually changed in order to remove democratic oversight (that's one of the reasons they could be so fucking brutal). More real power exists in the ECB and EU commission now and the parliament is more and more toothless. That's wrong on multiple levels.

I'm pretty sure the British outside of the cities are rationally voting to reduce competition in the labour market. Just ask the "in" campaign:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/1218...

If the EU keeps preaching austerity, labor market suppression and other neoliberal ideas I expect it to dissolve in a decade or two.

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#32

Post by tim333 » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:21 PM UTC

Oletros wrote: post #26

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not obvious at this point that the EU will still be around a couple of years from now. I think if one more country votes to leave between now and then a renegotiation and some core constitutional changes become more likely. The basic problem is that the Leave side lied about the benefits of leaving, but they were absolutely correct that the core of the EU has become a neoliberal financial dictatorship with rathe…

> It's not obvious at this point that the EU will still be around a couple of years from now Why?

Other countries look at the UK precedent, Greece leaves, things disintegrate.

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#33

Post by newjersey » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:21 PM UTC

curun1r wrote: post #23

The funniest/most interesting part wasn't the call for a second referendum, but the second petition described at the end of the article: A map of the petition signatures showed that most came from England’s major cities, topped by London where there is a separate petition calling on Mayor Sadiq Khan to declare the capital independent from the United Kingdom, and apply to join the EU. I'm not even sure how that could…

It is not that absurd when you think about it for a moment. It is not the time yet but major cities probably do better with less friction on movement of goods and people with other major cities. If that's true any hindrance is suboptimal.

I'm hopeful that England will join the EU as a full member (including common currency) within our lifetimes. It would preempt any credible calls for an independent London.

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#34

Post by mirekrusin » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:22 PM UTC

Atropos wrote: post #15

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not obvious at this point that the EU will still be around a couple of years from now. I think if one more country votes to leave between now and then a renegotiation and some core constitutional changes become more likely. The basic problem is that the Leave side lied about the benefits of leaving, but they were absolutely correct that the core of the EU has become a neoliberal financial dictatorship with rathe…

What about the UK? Their prime minister has resigned, the lead of the opposition party is battling a motion of no confidence, the British pound crashed 10% against the US-Dollar and Scotland wants to stay in the European Union...

it's more like ~6.8% than 10% but this will stabilise after initial hiccup of course.

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#35

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:23 PM UTC

gakada wrote: post #7

michaelt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If exit negotiations take a few years, and the European wanted to offer the Brits a face-saving way to change their minds, they could adopt some internal reforms / offer Britain a better deal. Wouldn't have to be a perfect deal, just good enough to justify having another vote.

That's the last thing they will do because then it would encourage every EU country to hold a referendum and do the same thing, which would kill the EU easily. [What I see as more likely is that the UK invokes Article 50, goes through a financial crisis, and then the EU offer to cancel our Article 50 invocation and let us stay in the EU if we join the Euro and Schengen.]

> EU if we join the Euro and Schengen

They aren't going to join neither

Also this is certain to make people even more pissed

Schengen does not make sense for the UK. (They have their own deal with Ireland because of Northern Ireland called the Common Travel Area which might go down the drain as well)

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#36

Post by mirekrusin » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:23 PM UTC

Democracy doesn't work by voting until you get results you want.

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#37

Post by sklogic » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:24 PM UTC

Over 50% of the country are chavs. There is nothing more stupid in this world than a chav.

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#38

Post by kbody » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:25 PM UTC

perlgeek wrote: post #30

That's not how democracy works. If there is a referendum, and you don't like the result, you don't just do a second referendum. If you'd do that, you could achieve any result you want, just by doing it over and over until. Due to voter's fatigue and/or daily sentiment, results will vary, so you can pick a result by deciding when to stop. It might make sense (though still be questionable) to repeat the vote if major f…

Personally I think a (major) referendum should be voted twice even with just a week difference.

A lot of people most probably didn't vote because they assumed the result from the pre-vote pools and for other various reasons. Now everyone is alarm, they won't be leaving it up to chance.

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#39

Post by venomsnake » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:25 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #3

I don't think a second UK referendum is realistic and I'm personally pinning my hopes on a second Scottish Independence referendum, but there is no doubt that the close result is being incredibly divisive. I never thought I'd agree with Nigel Farage, but he did say: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way" Of course, he meant a 52-48 Remain win - but I think the same principle holds eit…

Those 50 and a change results remind me of the quote about Versailles = "This is not a peace. It is an armistice for twenty years"

Nothing is solved. both remain and leave need 60+ to claim a mandate.

Re: Over one million people sign UK petition for second EU referendum

#40

Post by mirekrusin » Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 1:26 PM UTC

this statement is idiotic:

"We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based (on) a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum"

it would mean infinite loop of referendums without consensus.