As you know for sure, the UK chose to leave the EU on Thursday. As an immediate consequence, uncertainty is going to dominate for weeks or months until they realise their next move: sharp exit, stand-by, second referendum maybe. My question to you HNers is pretty simple: where do you think the next European hub will be, that is to say the new London, if any. I have had a quick survey within my network and the majority say it is going to be Berlin, also because there is something there already and critical mass will be easier to reach within the very heart of the EU. What do you think about? Thanks.
Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
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Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
#2IMHO It's too soon to tell. If several other states do the same the EU will become a disjointed mess. Some polls say as many as 43% of Germans feel more power should come home. If other member states show intention to leave it could ignite a surge of support for Germany to do the same. Then Berlin would just be another really nice place to visit but, isolated in German laws and the same chaos the UK is about to experience.
The real challenge is we live in very fragile times and the EU is like a big Jenga game, as parts start to slip away the entire thing could easily topple and drive Europe back into a chaotic state not seen in many people's lifetimes.
Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
#3London is and will be the start-up hub. Barcelona is also is a good place to start a business, but London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that.
Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
#4London. Not Berlin.
Berlin is affordable but that's it. You won't find the best people, the best teams and a good legal framework.
The UK has a better legal system. The UK Ltd. is way superior to the German Ltd. and soon they will move away from the EU inherited laws which are too much market regulating. Especially consumer protection and labour law are just a big bummer for many and for startups in particular.
Besides, just check total fundings, exits, average fundings sizes, etc. then you see the difference. Berlin based startups got much moeny the recent years but slowly people question again the ecosystem since exits are missing. Ok the city doesn't have the startup history like a Valley or London but still. Clear successes are missing. The only huge thing was Zalando's IPO.
Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
#5I've been living in Berlin since 3 years ( doing freelance web-development & my own "entrepreneurship" adventures ).
IMHO Berlin might sound cool as a startup hub, but there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low than average. It's true that Berlin is cheaper than London ( and overall Germany ), but definitely is not so cheap to attract good IT people to join your journey with those numbers.
On top of that, giving stock-options here is a bit hard ( legally ), so companies are struggling to offer some "virtual shares" of an employee pool as a compensation, which will never make you as rich as if you are one of the first employees of a unicorn.
Everything else from offices, meet ups, parties, nice food, international city is here and I think is much better than overcrowded and expensive London ( That's why I'm still here :) ).
Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
#6London. Not Berlin. Berlin is affordable but that's it. You won't find the best people, the best teams and a good legal framework. The UK has a better legal system. The UK Ltd. is way superior to the German Ltd. and soon they will move away from the EU inherited laws which are too much market regulating. Especially consumer protection and labour law are just a big bummer for many and for startups in particular. Besid…
You are going to have to abide by those "bummer" consumer protection laws if you are going to sell goods or services to the common market which coincidentally will become harder if the UK really decides to go forth with this lunacy.
Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
#7Lisbon will be the place;),nice people, lots of talented people,english is common language,food .
http://rethink.beta-i.pt/2016/05/04/report-lisbon-startup-sc...
Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
#8I've been living in Berlin since 3 years ( doing freelance web-development & my own "entrepreneurship" adventures ). IMHO Berlin might sound cool as a startup hub, but there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low than average. It's true that Berlin is cheaper than London ( and overall Germany ), but definitely is not so cheap to…
> there is a huge lack of talent. Companies are struggling to find a decent dev/design team, probably because the payment is way too low.
Exactly. You can't whine about the lack of talent and at the same time offer 50K-60K EUR to senior engineers...
I'd say, "cheap labour" is (was?) the main reason one might find Berlin attractive.
Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
#9London. Not Berlin. Berlin is affordable but that's it. You won't find the best people, the best teams and a good legal framework. The UK has a better legal system. The UK Ltd. is way superior to the German Ltd. and soon they will move away from the EU inherited laws which are too much market regulating. Especially consumer protection and labour law are just a big bummer for many and for startups in particular. Besid…
You are going to have to abide by those "bummer" consumer protection laws if you are going to sell goods or services to the common market which coincidentally will become harder if the UK really decides to go forth with this lunacy.
> goods or services to the common market
goods yes and only if you produce them, services no
anyway nobody would send stuff from UK to other countries even if the were in the EU; you would found country organization like you did before; so I won't see any changes, just for producers but most startups are not producing goods or to think further most companies in these expensive countries don't manufacture anything.
Re: Ask HN: Next european hub Berlin?
#10London is and will be the start-up hub. Barcelona is also is a good place to start a business, but London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that.
> London has a lot a talent form around the world. No brexit can change that.
Actually, quite likely it will. One of the main arguments of the "Leave" campaign was curtailing immigration as in effectively reducing it to zero. Now, of course this isn't actually possible and Farage and others are already sheepishly back-pedaling on most of their bold claims.
If this whole Brexit affair is supposed to make any remote sense at all there will be limits on immigration, because if the UK will still allow free movement of people and goods from the EU what's the point of leaving in the first place?
Limits on immigration will mean less talented people in the city. It's as simple as that. Besides, people from the EU who're already living and working in London either will have to leave or apply for permanent resident permits. Only time will tell how hard those will be to come by but it'll be at least a major hassle.