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Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

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Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#221

Post by theparanoid »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #152
p4wnc6 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's unlikely for EU nations to significantly damage trading relationships with the UK. Germany, for example, exports a huge volume of cars to the UK and it comprises a significant portion of German GDP. Yes, there's volatility around exactly how such a trade deal will get worked out, but it's unrealistic to lump "access to European markets" into one big ball and assume that Brexit means that whole topic will be…

Real numbers here. http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/how-would-key-export-sec... Some key UK export sectors - especially finance - have a very low probability of being able to carry on as normal. The German car industry accounts for around 3% of GDP. Sales to the UK are less than 1% of German GDP. The UK financial industry accounts for around 10% of GDP. Sales to the EU are around 4% of UK GDP. As a rough guess est…

I remember an issue in Cologne over new years. Economics isn't always the most important.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#222

Post by moultano »

lkrubner wrote: post #197
thebokehwokeh2 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. I'll bite on this one. Why are you opposed to mass immigration?

I admire your willingness to be open minded and ask the question, but I've asked the question in the past, and I've never gotten a straight answer. Instead I get some pat pre-package talking points, and if I dig deeper I get a confusion of ideas. And that's because the people opposed to immigration tend to be motivated by racism, but they don't want to say that, so they every other imaginable thing. It's simply impos…

Isn't self-interest enough of an explanation? Mass-immigration is unlikely to be a short term benefit to the host country, particularly to low skill workers in that country. Why should they oppose their own self interest?

(I'm personally a very pro-immigration American, so I'm talking about this to understand the debate not to advance any particular objective.)

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#223

Post by thevardanian »

jerven wrote: post #216
tomp wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU will make the UK pay a price for Brexit, and rightly so, otherwise all member states would leave and still enjoy the free movement of goods and people. I really hate this sentiment. This is just about the worst EU can do, it would damage its legitimacy in the eyes of us, EU citizens, even more than the handling of the Greek crisis already did. I don't see any reason to punish a country for voting to leave th…

Its not even that the EU really wants to make the UK pay. It's just that the UK had so many advantages that it negotiated before. Now they basically reset themselves back to 1972, but the problem is the EU is much bigger at 27 members today then in 72. Making it extremely unlikely that the re-negotiation is going to end up as well today. Also the UK will want a super fast negotation, the rest of the EU are not so muc…

If I'm not mistaken UK is one of the larger economies, and therefore should have more influence over the negotiations than there smaller, and less significant countries.

As for free movement of things, I believe it is in the best interest of the EU to allow lenient trade with UK, insofar as it doesn't damage its reputation as a legitimate institution.

However if reputation does take precedence over economic sense, then the UK has plenty of other new opportunities, on a global scale, negotiate trade freely with little EU intervention.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#224

Post by ZenoArrow »

DanBC wrote: post #208
ZenoArrow wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Everyone in the EU is ruled by their own elected government. The unelected bureaucrats in Brussels don't rule anybody. Their ability to make decisions for member states is limited by treaties. In any case, the UK was significantly more independent than other EU states in terms of currency and economic issues." The agenda of the EU is controlled by the EU Commission, as they're the only group that can propose laws.…

> > "Ah, conspiracy theories." > Ah, casual dismissal. If you want to see if there's any substance behind what I say, watch this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xMuUEd6w54E When someone thinks you're pushing conspiracy theories you probably need to point them to a better source of information than this: https://tbunews.com/about-tbu-news/ One example of "science": https://tbunews.com/resonance-beings-of-frequency/ Or…

What would you like me to prove? For example, here's the homepage of the European Round Table, the lobby group featured prominently in the documentary...

http://www.ert.eu/

There doesn't seem to be any denial of their position as a European lobby group...

http://www.ert.eu/about-us

"ERT advocates policies at both national and European level, aimed at creating conditions necessary to improve European growth and jobs.

ERT Members firmly believe that Europe’s prosperity depends on the competitiveness of the European economy, which in turn requires a sound, stable and well-managed political environment."

Was there a particular claim in the documentary that you thought was far fetched?

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#225

Post by EdHominem »

theparanoid wrote: post #221
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real numbers here. http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/how-would-key-export-sec... Some key UK export sectors - especially finance - have a very low probability of being able to carry on as normal. The German car industry accounts for around 3% of GDP. Sales to the UK are less than 1% of German GDP. The UK financial industry accounts for around 10% of GDP. Sales to the EU are around 4% of UK GDP. As a rough guess est…

I remember an issue in Cologne over new years. Economics isn't always the most important.

No, you don't. You remember reading about it on the equivalent of Fox news.

There were no mass rapes, gropings, etc.

Would you believe the papers if they said Jews were out in force, drinking the blood of your Christian babies?

Edit: Oh forgive me for pointing out the blood libel. What could ever go wrong from framing an entire ethnicity for stealing our jobs and raping our women?

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#226

Post by illumin8 »

jhou2 wrote: post #164
illumin8 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the full on collapse of the UK banking system, and the mass exodus of financial jobs isn't going to instantly dry up any startup funding in the UK, you're kidding yourself. Large companies in the UK are already announcing their intention to move thousands of jobs to Germany or Ireland.

To some extent, I think this is what Brexit supporters want. With fewer jobs in London and rest of UK, and more border controls, the attraction of the UK for migrants decreases significantly. The ultra heated real estate market can finally cool down a bit.

Everyone wants a less heated real estate market - ask California - until they realize that cold real estate markets indicate a lack of jobs and economic hardship.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#227

Post by bigheadpercoli »

volatilitish wrote: post #172
dragonwriter wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU has been extremely ineffective at negotiating trade deals between the 28 EU countries, and non EU countries. Exactly, which casts strong doubts on the this claim from your earlier post: "We will negotiate a trade deal with the EU as a whole." Because, you know, that is a trade deal between the 27 remaining EU countries and a non-(or soon to be non-)EU country, the exact thing you say that the EU isn't succes…

We buy more from the EU than we sell. We are the EUs biggest market. We buy 1,000,000 cars from Germany. It is massively in the EU's interests to do a deal with us quickly.

A new trade deal will likely lead to higher car cost in England.

Which car company in the UK could take the market share from Germany?

Seems like a seller market to me.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#228

Post by jpdus »

RickHull wrote: post #153
masklinn wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got your roles exactly inverted here. The UK left screaming, huffing and smashing the door but apparently expecting the same benefits they enjoyed beforehand, as a rational person the EU would have no reason whatsoever to entertain that behaviour let alone reward it. The EU has no rational reason to be especially sweet on the UK, and looking internally and at the future it can't even be seen as that as it woul…

> The UK left screaming, huffing and smashing the door Huh? This is your characterization of a referendum on membership?

Well, actually it is a good characterization of the leave campaign, which won the vote and thus a valid analogy.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#229

Post by tomp »

jpdus wrote: post #228
RickHull wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UK left screaming, huffing and smashing the door Huh? This is your characterization of a referendum on membership?

Well, actually it is a good characterization of the leave campaign, which won the vote and thus a valid analogy.

It's an equally good characterization of the remain campaign as well, so I'm not sure that's a good argument...

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#230

Post by ZenoArrow »

twblalock wrote: post #203
ZenoArrow wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "As the European commission, it's a civil service as there is in all the European countries." That's a common misconception. Why? In other countries, the civil service aren't the only ones that can propose legislation. In the EU, the European Parliament can't propose legislation, the European Council can't propose legislation, only the European Commission can propose legislation. You may be electing people to repre…

If the European Parliament were able to propose legislation, you would have a lot more of the kinds of laws and regulations you don't like about the EU.

No, I would have laws proposed by democratically elected officials, which is something I'd like to see more of from the EU. The only thing I'd want to see more is have European Citizen Initiatives skip the Commission and get debated in the European Parliament first.
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