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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#891

Post by phil248 »

thewarrior wrote: post #242
martythemaniak wrote: post #13

Is Scotland going to be exiting the UK next? Guess we'll see in a few years. Hard to know what will happen here, but I suspect once the UK (or what's left of it) signs a trade deal with the EU, they'll get the same deal as Norway - all the compliance with EU regulations, with none of the say. I suppose people may be happy with that deal, as long as they can get to say they're "free". I'm hoping this somehow leave the…

I feel that the growth of Fascist sentiment worldwide can't possibly be a coincidence. Globalisation and it's benefits are being questioned. People are disappointed. Even this vote , is actually a vote of dissatisfaction against the status quo. They just managed to direct enough of that anger against the EU. I'd like to suggest the following three hypotheses and hear what you guys think : 1. As growth slows , liberal…

What's strange to me is that so many people seem upset about "stagnating" at such a high standard of living. Most of the people driving anti-globalization are flirting with the highest quality of life of any humans to live. But because it's not slightly better than that, they're flailing around trying to find someone to blame. I think this all has much more to do with a changing "way of life" than economic factors.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#892

Post by the_common_man »

deepvibrations wrote: post #782

"When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world. I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation. When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family. Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could…

Please stop adding meaningless fluff.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#893

Post by atmosx »

atmosx wrote: post #313
darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

> But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basically similar terms again anyway? You seem to think that the EU is made of sensible people. It's not. Indeed, Brussels is at the very root of the problem. The terms they'll offer will be humiliating. I can assure you, that they'll be nothing that a UK gov can sign and we'll be displayed in a very, very public manner to make the Britons feel humiliated.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/europe-plung...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#894

Post by [deleted] »

tmptmp wrote: post #562

I wish to point out an important but not-directly-economical angle to Brexit that has seemed to play an important role. I wish the liberals take a notice of the problem of immigration, mainly the immigration of from Islamic countries. I am a liberal at the core. But what I have found that when it comes to Islam, many mainstream liberals and liberal politicians follow a double standard. The legitimate criticism of Isl…

[deleted]

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#895

Post by univalent »

Hate to use a poker analogy but: Cameron forgot the cardinal rule of gambling. Always leave yourself 'outs'. He raised the stakes when he had little to gain (shut up some dissidents in his party?) and everything to lose. No one forced him to do that.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#896

Post by Tomrn »

lucb1e wrote: post #418

What's most interesting about this thread to me is that before the vote the general consensus was "nobody knows what's better anymore anyway, hence also the close call". Now that the decision has been made to leave, most agree it was a big mistake and predict all sorts of bad consequences. What changed?

People have seen the market responding to uncertainty by dumping GBP and FTSE and are equating that with the UK economy actually being much worse off already. Hence the sudden 'realisation' that brexit was a terrible decision. Large numbers of traders betting on the UK betting on the UK being worse off does not make it so. (Or I guess it kind of does.. but that's markets for you!)

At this point we have absolutely no information about what the Brexit deal will look like, it's impossible to know what the UK economy will be like post EU. For all we know the eurozone could face a crisis in the next few years and by distancing itself from Brussels the UK could end up better off.

In a month or two when things have settled down we'll see a much more reasoned debate. Once article 50 is invoked and we begin to see what the 'leave' deal will actually look like you may see many people adjusting their position.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#897

Post by banach »

fchopin wrote: post #743
banach wrote: post #681

On the contrary, historical perspective is essential in understanding the issues that the EU is going through currently. If the German leadership took a good look in the mirror, it would see that it is subjecting Greece to a replica of the Treaty of Versaille and, as a result, should expect similar consequences. The PR outfall of that debacle is probably what pushed the Brits to vote for exit.

Greece is a great country, but seems to be at this point a welfare state. Whether there had been Brexit or not, it had fallen on hard times. From what I understand, many of its people supported Brexit, because they feel that they have been let down by the EU, although they are not in a good position to leave the EU themselves. I wish the best for Greece; I think they will be able to overcome their current situation a…

I am not sure that I understand your use of the term "welfare state". My dictionary says:

> a system whereby the government undertakes to protect the health and well-being of its citizens, especially those in financial or social need, by means of grants, pensions, and other benefits.

The above is standard in all of the northern-European countries typically lauded for their economic success. Clearly, this was not what caused the collapse of the Greek economy. Of course, there are many alternative theories, but the most convincing one I am aware of is that it was the result of subprime lending by north-European (predominantly German) banks.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#898

Post by fullshark »

disordinary wrote: post #309

The average age of someone who is voting to leave is above 60, the average age of someone who is voting to stay is below 35. The older generation have voted for something that the younger generation did not want but are now stuck with. They have voted away their future for short term gains. The sooner the baby boomers are all retired the better.

They aren't even getting short term gains (well maybe they beleived the idea that EU fees would go to NHS).

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#899

Post by criley2 »

notacoward wrote: post #766

That's a very strange, and in some cases inaccurate, portrayal of history. * The British were not an external enemy. That would have been the French. For the most part, even the people leading the revolution were proud of being British subjects and would have liked to remain so, but could no longer tolerate the conditions being attached to that status. Our enemy was recognized to be our own cousins, not some external…

>That would have been the French

Yes, our most valued and prized allies during Independence, whose supplies, blockades and expertise delivered to us our home... yes they were our enemy...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#900

Post by mikeokner »

frankmcsherry wrote: post #560
beninvalencia wrote: post #122

As other comments have noted, the point is that the EU will not want to give the UK a good deal on leaving, because the EU does not want to give any encouragement to the other countries which want to leave the EU (some of which want to leave more strongly than the UK do - apparently). Secondly, why would the UK end up with a Norway or Switzerland deal, when the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world? This is unpr…

> Secondly, why would the UK end up with a Norway or Switzerland deal, when the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world? Well, 6th now. Sorry about that. France said "bonjour" as you passed.

According to April 2016 data, France is behind both the UK and California: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states...

Edit: presumably you're referring to reports based on today's Pound Sterling crash, but those are incorrect as well: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu-referendu...

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