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David Cameron announces resignation

theguardian.com

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Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#261

Post by vacri »

geff82 wrote: post #42

He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state? Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential negative way? Or will they ignor…

> if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU

To reiterate what al_chemist has already said, the price for UKIP supporting the Tories to form government was holding this referendum. It wasn't a lark on the part of the Tories. Not even Farage thought UKIP would win - the BBC had quoted him stating they weren't going to win on the morning of the vote.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#262

Post by kale »

vijayr wrote: post #259

Can someone explain what happens next? Will UK really leave the EU? If yes, how long will it take? Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process?

Cameron steps down in October. A new Prime Minister will then initiate leaving the EU (per Treaty of Lisbon I think). This will take at least two years, possibly longer.

The market volatility isn't because they're out of the EU or will be that soon, rather everyone planning on a 2018-2019 exit.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#263

Post by mc32 »

CommanderData wrote: post #211
darkr wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His persona is that of a charismatic bumbling idiot, but idiot he is not. Underneath this persona lies a highly intelligent, disingenuous, manipulative and calculating operator. I genuinely think that he didn't believe in Brexit; rather he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it.

I agree. I don't quite understand the dynamics of elections and voting but if a candidate looks like a bumbling idiot mixed with charisma and charm, it somehow resonates, at least in the UK and US. Boris was this before being elected as mayor of London, somehow the image is perpetuated even now. In the run up to his mayoral elections his strong points were hardly discussed and his persona highlighted more than his ab…

Or, it's possible it just so happens his views on a key issue coincided with the views of a majority of the people who voted (and the turnout was large, and it's not as if when things go your way in elections you vacillate by thinking of the opposition who didn't vote).

It feels like this borders on elitism. That the people don't know what they want. I don't often see a similar sentiment when people vote along with the views of the elite (questioning sanity and motives).

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#264

Post by vacri »

namaemuta wrote: post #206
jacquesm wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think this will happen and likely it will happen on a much shorter time-scale than a Scottish vote for independence and entry into the EU.

I would wait a bit to see how things go for UK because Spain current situation isn't that good either.

Spain will try to block Scotland entering the EU, to fend off Catalonian separatism.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#265

Post by mc32 »

mstade wrote: post #260
mc32 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main thing is that regardless of who pushed for or against the UK exiting the EU the voters voted to leave. Neither Boris nor David made a unilateral decision. The people took action and voted against the EU. Lots of people are in shock but should not be.

Well, lots of people also voted for the EU – it was far from unanimous after all.

So when the votes align with the elites, do you see similar hand wringing? Oh, but so many people voted against our position... Not very likely.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#266

Post by vacri »

Yhippa wrote: post #239
Analemma_ wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I would agree with you and say that "worst leader ever" statements are hyperbolic when the leader is still in office, but this time I think it's appropriate. The United Kingdom is probably going to ultimately dissolve as a result of this vote, and Cameron is going to be remembered as the moron who let it happen, all because of a catastrophically failed gambit to pander to the Ukip-leaning Tories. "Worst lead…

What I don't understand is that isn't this what the people wanted? Across the pond it sounds like he tried to call someone's (pro-Brexit) bluff and lost. At the end of the day it sounds like this is what the people wanted though. I'm not seeing a lot of news about how the pro-Brexit people feel about the dissolution of the UK. Surely they knew this was an outcome.

A bare majority of the people, with some outright whoppers of lies told by the side that won. This is a "change the constitution" level of change, and it's been done with a pretty slim majority. Usually a country will require a 2/3rds majority or similar to make such a significant legal change.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#267

Post by dman »

secfirstmd wrote: post #233
cylinder wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your thoughts on this thread? Some really negative anecdotes about Dublin living: https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/comments/4p9r9l/dublins_sk...

Reddit/r/Ireland is extremely negative about everything. Some of the negativity doesn't make sense. The piece about not living in the city centre and instead the suburb commuter towns is madness. Totally the opposite. The commuter towns to Dublin are boring as hell, housing estates with very little services. Inner City Dublin is rejuvenating very fast, and parts of it feel like a smaller, more intimate version of Sho…

The inability to talk to people on the bus was one of the first differences I noticed when I moved from India to the US.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#268

Post by vacri »

010a wrote: post #243
Grue3 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had Talk about lack of perspective. In the long term it's absolutely insignificant. It's like people calling GWB or Obama the worst US president. Can't believe such a poorly thought out comment is at the top.

He absolutely deserves the title in this case. What will happen in the UK/Britain over the next decade will likely rival the significance of the Magna Carta, except in a mostly-negative way. And it is his fault.

His fault and 52% of the voting public.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#269

Post by capote »

mstade wrote: post #260
mc32 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main thing is that regardless of who pushed for or against the UK exiting the EU the voters voted to leave. Neither Boris nor David made a unilateral decision. The people took action and voted against the EU. Lots of people are in shock but should not be.

Well, lots of people also voted for the EU – it was far from unanimous after all.

And it seems many of the leave voters are regretting their choice now.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#270

Post by Tloewald »

geff82 wrote: post #42

He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state? Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential negative way? Or will they ignor…

A vote that causes an instant 5-8% downgrade in the market's evaluation of pretty much an entire country is something that affects people's daily lives, unfortunately. (I guess it's similar in scope to electing George W. Bush, but it was not clear how bad a decision this was for a couple of years.)

Before the vote, the consensus estimate by economists was that this would be a 2% hit to GDP. Again, that affects people's daily lives -- it's essentially a self-inflicted recession.

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