"Put 11 fools on one side, 10 philosophers on the other side ... fools prevail. That's democracy " Jacques Brel
UK votes to leave EU
751–760 of 1001 posts
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#752Although I do understand a lot of comments about how sad and bad it is for Europe and for growth of this European identity, I am also of the idea that if a country doesn't want to stay, well, don't. I am alright, it means that Europe will have more decision-making power. It was a pain in the ass every once in a while to assist to UK's requests and threatens. We can focus now on how to make a better Europe. And things…
> I am also of the idea that if a country doesn't want to stay Vastly complicated by the fact that Scotland and Northern Ireland don't want to leave, and will in fact face calls for independence referendums as a result. They get significant funding from the EU in these disadvantaged areas, and I find it hard to believe that the London government will step into the breach and up the funding in the face of a potential…
> I can foresee the end of the UK.
Be it, then. The world shapes itself continuously, and it will always do so.
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#753One more thing: the UK was the official reason English is one of the languages of the EU (same as, on paper at least, with all the other languages). It will require some more fiddling to keep it so.
Irish Republic. 5 million people. Once UK finally leaves the EU Ireland will be the largest state in the EU where the majority language is English. To help you find it :) Ireland is located in 26 out of 32 of the counties in that island to the west of Great Britain. ;-)
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#754A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…
The EU grants rights; I have read your charter. In the US, our rights are inalienable and not granted by government; big difference.
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#755The EU is nowehere near what its declaration stated. aka there are fundamental problems in this union which the EU is trying to hide under the carpet but they can not be hidden.
What I find surprising is that it is the British who first decide to act about them instead of the southerns.
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#756Note to self:
- Learn german
- Invest in german language schools
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#757A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…
The outright disdain shown for democracy here is shocking. The EU is a completely undemocratic institution with a huge amount of control over member nations. Having an organization I have no say in control my life and my country is insane. Especially one that threatens sanctions against member nations that elect "wrong" governments, where "wrong" means "opposes any EU policies". The US wouldn't be united if the citizens of the individual states had no vote in the federal government.
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#758A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…
One can be for free movement, free trade, peace and 'growing together' without being Pro-EU. The EU is not a abstract entity that only lives of ideas. Its a concrete implementation of these ideas (and many others). This implementation I judge to be deficient. The issues are to many to list here, but I just wanted to state the principe. Europe can achieve most of the things you want without the EU. Switzerland has man…
This is correct. It is possible to have co-operation, trade and agreements of all sorts without having an additional layer of government (and a rather unaccountable form of government, at that).
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#759As other comments have noted, the point is that the EU will not want to give the UK a good deal on leaving, because the EU does not want to give any encouragement to the other countries which want to leave the EU (some of which want to leave more strongly than the UK do - apparently). Secondly, why would the UK end up with a Norway or Switzerland deal, when the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world? This is unpr…
"The EU needs the UK" Not true. It is the reverse because the UK runs a gigantic trade deficit: in 2014 they exported 472 billion USD, but imported 663 billion USD¹. In fact the UK is the second country in the world with the largest trade deficit (behind the US). A huge portions of UK's export go to Europe, therefore the EU has definitely more say when it comes to negotiating trade deals with the UK. I would be very…
You just confirmed what the person you replied to was saying. Having a trade deficit is why the EU needs them. They buy all of the EUs goods.
Re: UK votes to leave EU
#760A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…
Agreed. As an aside, for me this is a sterling example of the dangers of "direct democracy", that many see as the solution of all evils that plague the political process. The majority of UK lawmakers (democratically elected by the same people that voted the referendum) were in favor of staying in the Union: even a large number with conservative and traditionalist background (including the PM). Yet the future of the U…
I find it quite dangerous to think most people are too naive to vote on important issues.
Trained politicians are also very much impacted by gut reactions and irrational behavior (though in favour of one's own party/career/etc).
People don't necessarily all use the same objective functions. I think many were disappointed by the EU as they perceive it as an economic-only enterprise, where not everyone wins. I think many could be OK with a lower GDP, and a slower and more local economy, etc. It's not so clear on the long run what will actually be the best for UK and its people.
In Switzerland, people vote on different issues about 12 times a year. Some of these issues are quite complex and technical (for instance, how should benefits of some state-dependent companies be handled, etc). Some are easy yet extremely consequential. Usually there is no particular tendency to fall for the easy stories based on gut feelings. In general I think that able to vote is more important (mostly for stability), even if it leaves a door open to populism.