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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#691

Post by pbhjpbhj »

grondilu wrote: post #596
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

> I would guess no small part of them will try to move to the remaining EU states. You seem to underestimate the language barrier. I once talked to a few British young people about which country they would like to move to and I recall they mentioned New Zealand and the US, none of them mentioned any country in continental Europe and when I asked why I got confirmation that language issues matter. That's one reason am…

Pretty much everyone who is literate learns French, German or Spanish to a basic conversational level at high school FWIW.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#692

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #677
cabalamat wrote: post #568

> What culture do Germans, Greeks, Latvians, Bulgarians, Fins, and Spaniards share? The one that used to be called the Roman Empire, then Christendom, and is now called Western Civilisation. It is also arguably the greatest achievement of the human species.

> It is also arguably the greatest achievement of the human species. This belief, and a horrid past (and present) of exploiting, plundering, murdering, etc all over the world, from the Crusades and colonial times to the Holocaust and onwards, is what makes it one of the most bloody and backwards "achievements of the human species". Some exhibits from the "greatest achievement of the human species": https://en.wikiped…

[deleted]

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#693

Post by hmmdiggy »

imperio59 wrote: post #340

The most interesting thing is the age distribution of votes: HOW AGES VOTED (YouGov poll) 18-24: 75% Remain 25-49: 56% Remain 50-64: 44% Remain 65+: 39% Remain Read into it what you wish, but this really sucks for the younger generation who did not want this yet will be stuck with this decision, likely for their entire lifetime.

> likely for their entire lifetime

This will affect everyone for their entire lifetime, regardless of their current age.

Reminds me of a Ricky Gervais stand-up where a woman is scarred for life at the age of 93, which is technically true regardless of how many years she lives to.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#694

Post by galfarragem »

redthrowaway wrote: post #487
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

The US did not magic itself into existence as a united state. It began in common purpose with a shared, very strong, external enemy. It then assigned itself a shared dream of settling the content. And, crucially, it already had a shared cultural identity, shared language, and shared religion when it began. The EU does not have a common enemy to force it together. It does not have a shared language, or culture, or ide…

>> The EU does not have a common enemy to force it together. It does not have a shared language, or culture, or identity. Its dream, while noble, does not speak to ordinary people. And it is pretty damned incompetent at what duties it has assigned itself.

I believe mentalities are changing slowly. My generation (generation "Erasmus") is the first that identifies itself more as an European citizen than a national citizen [1] but our parent's generation doesn't feel the same yet.

By the other hand I think the main reason for Brexit is economics and not identity: UK thinks that they are not having a positive ROI by staying in the EU. Puting it roughly: Germany "exchanges" money for leadership. Peripheral countries "exchange" leadership for money. And UK? The "exchange rate" doesn't seem favourable..

[1] http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/young-voters-wanted-bre...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#695

Post by junto »

beninvalencia wrote: post #122

As other comments have noted, the point is that the EU will not want to give the UK a good deal on leaving, because the EU does not want to give any encouragement to the other countries which want to leave the EU (some of which want to leave more strongly than the UK do - apparently). Secondly, why would the UK end up with a Norway or Switzerland deal, when the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world? This is unpr…

You've forgot to look at the other side of the coin. Due to the EU trade tariffs with Asian and US countries, many non-EU manufacturers took advantage of the "final fabrication" loop-hole and the huge EU subsidies aimed at helping poor economic areas of the UK gain jobs, and set up fabrication plants in the UK.

Asian car manufacturing were and are heavy investors in the UK, in order to produce vehicles for the UK and EU markets [1].

Those perks have just evaporated, along with the jobs. The blue collar workers that heavily backed a Brexit, have shot themselves in the foot. It makes financial sense for Toyota who sell 90% of their UK produced vehicles to move away from the UK and back into the EU zone. They have just lost their EU trade tariff benefits and been hit by the GBP/EUR drop, making their cars 8.5% more expensive to 90% of their customers.

  Those firms would be hit hard by a Brexit, losing preferential tariff and 
  customs treatment in Europe. Toyota, for example, exports 90% of its U.K.-
  built cars.
If you haven't got a job, you can't buy German cars anyway. The argument is mute. This vote is going to have a huge impact on jobs, since being part of the Eurozone was more than just British imports.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/asian-company-shares-reeling-aft...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#696

Post by pvaldes »

Khaine wrote: post #593
cabalamat wrote: post #568

> What culture do Germans, Greeks, Latvians, Bulgarians, Fins, and Spaniards share? The one that used to be called the Roman Empire, then Christendom, and is now called Western Civilisation. It is also arguably the greatest achievement of the human species.

Yeah and it died with the Western Roman Empire

We still study and use extensively the Roman Law and the Common Law in fact. The origin to a lot of our current laws can be easily traced to Roman Empire.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#697

Post by nicotonico »

anothermouse wrote: post #640

For those of you outside the UK, please realise that this was not a xenophobic vote. Just because there were racist scum in the crowd voting brexit, doesn't mean all brexit supporters are likewise. There are many reasons why people voted to leave but the journalism covering this seemed to only be able to cover the sensationalist parts of the debate in the most childish fashion. This needed a serious discussion amongs…

This is the greatest reason the polls were so wrong.

The media decided brexit was wrong. And therefore they used the age-old argument "all who vote leave are rayciss". So leavers were in anonimity. But that does not stop them from voting. It was a shitshow.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#699

Post by nicotonico »

Of course. Civilisation is built with wars and by killing those who don't share the values of the majority. Why? Because if you don't do it, somebody else will do it to you. As simple as that.

Pacifists are nuts.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#700

Post by hmmdiggy »

jacquesm wrote: post #472

Surprising that a simple majority is enough to effect such a massive change, one would expect that a supermajority would be required to change the status quo. It's a sad day for the UK's younger generation who voted overwhelmingly to stay, the older generation, who will depend for their bread and butter on the younger ones has just made their life a lot harder. Everybody that's gleefully celebrating will be in an exc…

> It's a sad day for the UK's younger generation who voted overwhelmingly to stay, the older generation

Implying not all votes are equal.

> who will depend for their bread and butter on the younger ones has just made their life a lot harder.

Or rely on their pension they've worked their entire lives for, which having remained in the EU would be more at risk.

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