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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#571

Post by herbst »

_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

Isnt that exactly what the people do not want? I for one moved away from the EU, also because i did not like how my country was slowing losing its sovereignty and with that their traditions and national proud (in a good sense, not the nazi one they have a lot of that right now).

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#572

Post by skissane »

paradite wrote: post #90

A slightly meta discussion: I noticed that some "typical headline news" are gathering a lot of votes and getting to the top of front page. This seems to be working against the HN guidelines: If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. I know political news get some kind of penalties. Would that apply to a more generic headline news like this? Personally, I upvote stories like this purely because of its si…

This isn't some run-of-the-mill political news story. This is world history in the making. Surely, if any case deserves an exception to the general rule, it's this one.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#573

Post by philippnagel »

MrLeftHand wrote: post #556

My gosh, loads of people commenting. Hacker news is indulged in politics as we speak. It's a shame really. But to add my views to the board... Yes the EU wasn't perfect. I wouldn't call it undemocratic, or despotic, or communist, fascist, etc... But it was start of something getting people together. Making Europe a whole. Now the Brexit sparked other right wing parties in member countries to gain popularity. And we a…

While I agree with you, I don't understand why "Hackers" shouldn't comment politics. How is that a shame?

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#574

Post by oblio »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #24
lossolo wrote: post #5

Unfortunately nationalism and populism won another war. Now watch Scotland make referendum to leave UK and after leaving they will join EU.

Is populism supposed to be bad? I just looked up the definition to make sure and it's basically the principle that ordinary people should have control over government rather than political insiders and wealthy elite. That sounds like democracy to me. Is there an aspect I'm missing?

Democracy involves thinking about the citizens, both short term and long term.

Populism is just catering to the short term needs, even basic ones, just to get attention/votes/support.

Populist example from Romania: get an IMF loan in order to increase pensions. Text-book example of shooting yourself in the foot long term, but a very popular action among pensioners, which are a large voting demographic.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#575

Post by wiredfool »

pavornyoh wrote: post #102

A bit of a naive question as I am fascinated by what is happening. I admit I don't completely understand so my question is if the UK is made up of England, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland why aren't they represented at the European cup currently being held/played in France as the United Kingdom? Why are they playing as separate countries yet voting together to leave the EU? I don't get it.

It gets worse. The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland both have teams. They both wear green and white, They can both draw players from both sides of the border, and they're both coached by someone named M. O'Neil. And they both made it through to the knockout stages.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#576

Post by elif »

redthrowaway wrote: post #487
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

The US did not magic itself into existence as a united state. It began in common purpose with a shared, very strong, external enemy. It then assigned itself a shared dream of settling the content. And, crucially, it already had a shared cultural identity, shared language, and shared religion when it began. The EU does not have a common enemy to force it together. It does not have a shared language, or culture, or ide…

Actually, the US did kind of magic itself into existence due to a domestic labor and civil rights dispute. The states were primarily independent after the declaration of independence. It was not until Shay's Rebellion 10 years later that spooked the aristocrats into drawing our current constitution.

And to bypass your essentialized romantic patriotic history for a moment while utilizing your "common enemy" rhetoric, the EU has many common enemies and innumerable common and unique struggles. Consider immigration, the struggle for democracy, ecological responsibility, social justice, annexation by Russia. All issues individually more compelling than the rich coalescing their power to maintain control of the poor in a relatively isolated country with the population of Houston. The EU has so many good reasons to exist.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#577

Post by maze-le »

mtgx wrote: post #488
jstsch wrote: post #97

Ironically Brexit might bring a federal Europe closer to reality. It strengthens the dominance of France and Germany.

Yeah, Germany is going to come out a big winner out of this. And I'm glad, too. Germany seems a lot more democratic than UK lately. It deserves to be the #1 country in the EU.

I'd actually see this as a problem. Germany is already percieved as too powerful in the union. And in the fields, where they really have influence (e.g.: Eurogruppe) they screwed things up pretty much. Besides other nationalists already see German power as threat, the rise of the far right in France and Poland is by some degree influenced by this development.

I think the EU with less German influence would be better. (FYI I am german)

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#578

Post by dba7dba »

danmaz74 wrote: post #545
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

> Especially I am sad for the young generation in the UK. A very large part (about 75%) voted to stay in Europe, and this future is taken from them. That's indeed really sad. Young Europeans have enjoyed a freedom to choose where to study, live and work that was unprecedented in Europe. What will come next, with the resurgence of nationalism and bigotry in Europe, is very difficult to say, but I see no good coming ou…

Freedom to study, live and work anywhere in EU for European was an incredible privilege and liberating. Unfortunately no one had thought of millions of non-Europeans actually getting into EU in such a short time as it has last 2 years.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#579

Post by alva »

A beautiful day for the UK.

No longer will those with "wrong opinions" be shut out of debate and policy because they are conditioned with a pavlovian response of fear from being called bad names

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#580

Post by madshiva »

_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

it's not sad, it's a good news. The EU was only about trade regulations, nobody is thinking that we are EU but only think I'm French, I'm German, etc. How do you want that this is working? US have done nothing special, they only use the same money, and it's still splitted in "nation" then it's the same, different rules, different culture (rage against Spanish in some state, rage against black in other). We are not united, we are all alone in this war. When people will start to say "I'm a citizen of the world" and stop thinking that they are "French, US, etc." maybe the world will go better.
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