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“PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

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Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#341

Post by woodman »

lmm wrote: post #340
woodman wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...needed to make something sound absurd vary? Sure. That is your point, not mine. I'm saying that you're focusing on the wrong part of the equation. Imagine a machine with two variables that you have influence over, calibration error and runtime. You are suggesting short runtimes in order to minimize the impact of calibration error, I'm suggesting recalibration. I'd love to hear an extreme for "Live and let live",…

> That is your point, not mine. I'm saying that you're focusing on the wrong part of the equation. Imagine a machine with two variables that you have influence over, calibration error and runtime. You are suggesting short runtimes in order to minimize the impact of calibration error, I'm suggesting recalibration. Please stop with the extended metaphors and just say what you're trying to say directly. > I'd love to he…

> metaphors

I count two metaphors, used only because the direct explanation failed to get through to you.

> Whatever. Are you interested in a constructive discussion or not?

I think it is clear that won't happen, "Whatever" is a strong indicator of disinterest.

> There are plenty of silly extremes for "live and let live"

None of those examples make any sense, which can be explained in two way: you don't know that "live and let live" is an idiom related to coexistence and tolerance, or you think that "extreme" necessitates mutual exclusivity.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#342

Post by theamk »

nakodari wrote: post #101

Another victim of Paypal here. I run Jumpshare, a file sharing and collaboration service for creative professionals. This is what Paypal sent us: "May 8, 2016: When you signed up for your PayPal account, you agreed to our User Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy. Because some of your recent transactions violated this policy, we've had to permanently limit your account. Please remove any references to PayPal from your…

Looking at Stripe's API docs, it seems their preferred payment technology is javascript popup which asks for CC number directly. If the technology has been 'properly implemented', only Stripe will see the credit card details, but as a consumer, I have no way to tell if the technology has been implemented properly.

As a result, I feel it is much safer to avoid typing my credit card number into random websites. Thus, my first reaction to a site which asks for my credit card (directly or via Stripe) is 'OK, are there any alternatives which take a safer payment method'

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#343

Post by 794CD01 »

Draiken wrote: post #290
794CD01 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you don't know whether Discover or Amex is bigger? Why does that matter? And Paypal is not a credit card. You can link it directly to your bank account and pay with it as the transaction processor. That's a big part of why it's so popular. Might as well complain about bitcoins.

Sorry I don't understand the point of your answer. I've mentioned multiple times "financial institutions", which include banks and paypal in my book. Bitcoins are amazing. Just not there yet. I can't give a credit card of bitcoins for my wife to buy groceries :) But that's off-topic. You clearly just want to disagree and that's fine, but please bring arguments instead of weird accusations of bitcoin hatred

The point is that referring to Visa and MC as a duopoly is inaccurate. There are other ways to process payments besides through the credit card system.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#344

Post by sovande »

tarstarr wrote: post #335
sovande wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fortunately companies like stripe.com The sad truth is that Stripe is behaving exactly like PayPal. What's worse is that Stripe's fraud protection is non-existing. In other words, Stripe is actually worse than PayPal, as you risk the same account freeze, closing etc, but in addition, you will be swamped down with fraudulent purchases and chargebacks.

(Disclaimer: I work at Stripe) Stripe does have a fraud protection product, which is enabled by default for every user. It centers around a machine learning system, that uses static signals (e.g. card issuing country) and time-dependent, dynamic signals (e.g. "how many different devices have tried to use this card in the last N hours?") to analyze every charge that hits our systems. Transactions that are deemed almos…

For posterity, yes you do have this "neural network" thing. It does not really work now AFAIK, but I do hope you will succeed as we definitely need a viable alternative to PayPal.

Though I'm sceptical to this approach. In machine learning 101 we learned that there always exist a statistical method that would beat a neural network. In this case, a system that gathers actual relevant data for statistical scoring. You know hard data, like an up to date list of stolen credit card numbers, a history of chargeback per credit card etc. PayPal has this and of 1000 transactions, we have 1-2 fraudulent chargebacks. Compared to Strip this is the difference between heaven and hell. PayPal sucks, but at least they have a working fraud protection system.

Nothing kills an online business faster than being swamped in fraud and chargebacks. I mean, good APIs are great and Stripe certainly has that, but a working fraud protecting system is what really matters to those of us who sell online.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#345

Post by dredmorbius »

tehrei wrote: post #327
dredmorbius wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telecoms got itself monopolised just fine before regulations came along. AT&T sealed in the concept of operating as a regulated monopoly. But that goes back to 1913. There are industries which tend naturally toward monopolies, with transport, communications, broadcast, and software among them. There are also industries which tend naturally away from monopolies, such as sandwich shops, cement providers, and laundromat…

Would you say that industries with heavy network effects tend towards monopolies, while those without tend to produce more competition?

That's a large part of it.

Transport, comms, banking, and information technology, tend toward monopolies.

Consulting is a mixed bag -- if you're relying on creativity, not so much, but if you're relying on marketing and business contacts, both of which are far more a network effect (with strong lock-in elements), yes. Contrast your typical small-gig design shop vs. the Big Declining n Accounting Firms, or IBM and Oracle (consulting / business services).

Retail can be local (small effects) or global: large grocery stores, WalMart, Amazon.

There are other effects as well. I've been curious about Maersk's adoption of ultra-large cargo ships, even as shipping volumes have been falling. While there's a financing-design-build lag, there's also the possiblity that having and operating a large ship puts pressures on other operators -- if you're operating and loading, you're taking cargo which would go onto smaller vessels.

It's complicated.

Part of this also plays into concepts of what and how technological mechanisms actuall function: https://ello.co/dredmorbius/post/klsjjjzzl9plqxz-ms8nww

I'd include among "network effects" urban and even empirical structures.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#346

Post by EdHominem »

corobo wrote: post #278
palunon wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the corruption is based on a value, different for each client (eg, a random number or the serial number of your motherboard), how do you reverse it ?

If you can't reverse it you can't seed it anymore and BitTorrent breaks Even if that's not the case they'd just switch from grabbing a hash of the entire file to finding sub-hashes of the file or other fingerprints. You'd have to do a lot of corrupting to make this worth it. If adobe premiere can sync my audio tracks when one is barely audible and the other has background noise you better believe there's a service th…

The idea is to save the file on Dropbox, but wrapped in symmetrical encryption so that they don't know what it is. You know your key because you created it, but they don't.

Your torrent client would see the normal file, they wouldn't see anything except random garbage.

Why? Um, perhaps to have a "torrent box" which stored data in a more accessible place?

Perhaps just to crap on someone's stupid censorship.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#347

Post by vatotemking »

ams6110 wrote: post #201
vatotemking wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me part of the reason is that Paypal is available in more countries than Stripe. For example, here I can withdraw money from PayPal to my local bank account. I dont think its possible with Stripe.

Last time I used Stripe it was directly connected to a bank account. They would sit on funds for a couple of days I guess this was to allow the transaction to clear whatever batch cycles happen behind the scenes (debits cards were typically faster than credit charges) but the deposits came directly into the account. Has that changed?

That may be true in US and other supported countries but unfortunately here (SE Asia) its not yet available. Stripe needs to support ALL countries to overtake PayPal.

Stripe: https://stripe.com/global Paypal is huge: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/country-worldwide

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#348

Post by [deleted] »

gabhubert wrote: post #281
lucaspiller wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it varies by country. Also Stripe isn't available in nearly as many markets as PayPal, two big ones that immediately pop out are Estonia and Hong Kong. Another thing to bear in mind is lots of people outside the "main Western" countries (for lack of a better term) still don't have credit or debit cards that can be used to pay online. PayPal accepts a lot of local payment methods and even lets you transfer fun…

fwiw, HK is in private beta: https://stripe.com/global

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