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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#321
post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

This comment [1] from /u/he3-1 on Reddit has some good reasons that many think this is bad:

---- begin quote ----

Economist here. This is what a recent poll of economists on this issue looks like [2], we have a pretty good idea of some of the things that come next and they are not good.

There are four major areas of concern;

• London is the financial center of the EU because the UK is both in the EU and is relatively friendly to financial services. Absent the UK having a regulatory treaty with the EU (which they can't without being part of the EU) financial services will be forced to move to the mainland. Even prior the vote there was work underway on this, the first movements will begin to occur in a couple of weeks. Several other sectors are similarly at risk.

• When the UK leaves it has no trade treaties with any other country in the world. This means all British goods will incur new or higher tariffs in all trading partner countries, British goods become more expensive when compared to comparable goods produced elsewhere. There is not a magic button here, it typically takes decades to either create new treaties or join an existing one.

• If the UK decides it wants access to the single market it also needs to adopt single market rules, effectively accepting all EU regulation but without having any voice in that regulation. That's assuming France & Germany don't just block UK access to the single market out of spite.

• The UK no longer has visa free access to EU states and the same is true of the EU to the UK. There are enormous numbers of British ex-pats who live on the continent and enormous numbers of non-UK EU citizens who live in the UK. Even if the UK & EU manage to push through a very hasty set of reforms allowing those who have lived there for n years to remain we are still talking about pretty significant labor displacement & disruption.

When every major central bank in the world have brought in extra staff and have prepared their emergency liquidity facilities you are going to have a bad day. I expect the pound to hit dollar equality tomorrow, its going to be the ERM disaster on steroids.

---- end quote ----

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4pkt3k/bbc_forec...

[2] http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-re...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#322
post #12

Can someone please give an unbiased summary of what this means and how it will impact the UK, Europe, and the rest of the world?

What does it mean? The Powers That Be have prognosticated every manner of doom should Brexit succeed. Despite that fear mongering, the threats and demands of all major political parties, many corporations and foreign leaders, the brave people of the UK have asserted their sovereignty. Over 72% of the entire electorate voted and produced a clear majority. That is monumental. What happens next? Next is the shaming; the…

Reminds me of Penn & Teller's "biased as fuck, but fair" approach to skepticism.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#323

Is Scotland going to be exiting the UK next? Guess we'll see in a few years. Hard to know what will happen here, but I suspect once the UK (or what's left of it) signs a trade deal with the EU, they'll get the same deal as Norway - all the compliance with EU regulations, with none of the say. I suppose people may be happy with that deal, as long as they can get to say they're "free". I'm hoping this somehow leave the…

I feel that the growth of Fascist sentiment worldwide can't possibly be a coincidence. Globalisation and it's benefits are being questioned. People are disappointed. Even this vote , is actually a vote of dissatisfaction against the status quo. They just managed to direct enough of that anger against the EU. I'd like to suggest the following three hypotheses and hear what you guys think : 1. As growth slows , liberal…

[deleted]

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#324
post #198

I think this should be a wake up call for those of us who are American. Populist movements that rely heavily on anger, fear, and anti-immigration rhetoric can still be effective in western democracies even if a large majority of experts think it shouldn't and won't happen. This is the first time I have legitimately thought we might end up with a Trump presidency.

My thoughts as well - it's surprising (well, maybe not) to see how effective these populist movements are these days whether it's France (Front National), Germany (AfD), Britain (UKIP), Czech, Poland, etc. To me it seems that Switzerland is the only country where its population can be trusted with plebiscitary measures, referendums and other forms of rather direct democracy.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#325
I'm hearing a lot of people comment that this will cause a huge macroeconomic deficit worldwide, and I'm going to briefly explain why I believe the Pound Sterling's 9% devaluation is purely speculative.

The UK simply didn't buy the EU's story about the Euro, and now they want a fully independent monetary policy. I'm not sure how much they have studied such possibility, but I bet that taking this to a democratic level was a data-driven decision.

The EU is going to want to put some political pressure for sure, but I don't think that they are going to want to do such a huge damage as wanting to establish a trade embargo with the 5th biggest economy of the world.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#326
post #12

Can someone please give an unbiased summary of what this means and how it will impact the UK, Europe, and the rest of the world?

It may not impact anyone actually. It's just a referendum and not a binding decision. I wouldn't expect a ~50% vote to actually force a change.

As a Brit, I hope it forces some EU changes and a new referendum. Largely because Scotland will leave the UK if the UK leaves the EU.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#327
post #288

I truly do not understand our society. Europe is split, even if the countries aren't, the people are. Every political decision ends up being a race of the well-educated against the less-educated. The clash of classes happens not only in Europe, the Trump success is the same story. Maybe I'm just too young and uninformed to understand and that's how the world works ever since?

If you want to understand society better, start by accepting that there are well educated people on both sides.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#328

Is Scotland going to be exiting the UK next? Guess we'll see in a few years. Hard to know what will happen here, but I suspect once the UK (or what's left of it) signs a trade deal with the EU, they'll get the same deal as Norway - all the compliance with EU regulations, with none of the say. I suppose people may be happy with that deal, as long as they can get to say they're "free". I'm hoping this somehow leave the…

I feel that the growth of Fascist sentiment worldwide can't possibly be a coincidence. Globalisation and it's benefits are being questioned. People are disappointed. Even this vote , is actually a vote of dissatisfaction against the status quo. They just managed to direct enough of that anger against the EU. I'd like to suggest the following three hypotheses and hear what you guys think : 1. As growth slows , liberal…

I agree with your assessment. I think I would remove #2 and swap #1 & #3 - i.e. The Western working class has realized that globalization hasn't raised their living standards resulting in (or as a result of) lower overall growth and this causes liberal democracy to cease to be the status quo.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#329

As other comments have noted, the point is that the EU will not want to give the UK a good deal on leaving, because the EU does not want to give any encouragement to the other countries which want to leave the EU (some of which want to leave more strongly than the UK do - apparently). Secondly, why would the UK end up with a Norway or Switzerland deal, when the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world? This is unpr…

The unnecessary scaremongering goes on even after the vote has been called...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#330
post #121

Yet another example that immigration policy trumps pretty well all other concerns. This has played out several times in Australia. 5% of the population suddenly voted for a nationalist candidate Pauline Hanson who came from nowhere, had no policies, no credibility and no clue just because she was against immigration. Major political parties took note that day, and since then they have in various roundabout ways adopt…

Pauline Hanson was elected in Queensland (North Eastern state) QLD has always had 'interesting' politics. Joh Bjelke-Petersen, Clive Palmer, Campbell Newman, Bob Katter etc. One Nation (her party) has done poorly almost everywhere else in the country.

True Queensland is a nation unto itself sometimes. But One Nation still managed to get an unprecedented number of votes despite only existing for a year or so. This has had a massive influence on subsequent Australian immigration policy, not in a good way.
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