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Workman Keyboard layout

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Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#121

Post by scholia »

zZorgz wrote: post #61
scholia wrote: post #18

Seems a little strange to concentrate so much on keyboard layouts rather than switching to a split or ergonomic keyboard....

I used to use a split keyboard but now I just stick with Apple's flat keyboards. I don't buy it anymore that they're more ergonomic. The "extra rest space" on my MS split keyboard I've actually found to be detrimental for me. Besides, people also use laptops and may not want to swap their keyboard.

Well, they're more ergonomic because you can align your hands with your arms, instead of twisting your hands at an angle. This is a matter of fact. You are entitled to prefer a flat keyboard -- that's entirely your choice -- but it doesn't change the ergonomic reality.

> Besides, people also use laptops and may not want to swap their keyboard.

Laptops are not ergonomic, and nobody who knows the facts will use them for long periods for precisely that reason. However, you can make them less damaging to your health by putting the laptop on a riser and using an external keyboard.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#122

Post by scholia »

melling wrote: post #21
scholia wrote: post #18

Seems a little strange to concentrate so much on keyboard layouts rather than switching to a split or ergonomic keyboard....

Why wouldn't you want both? An efficient layout means that your figures move less. You can remap most keyboards to get a more efficient layout, even the $20 keyboard. You can analyze the distance your figures travel for a given text here: http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/main I've got resources for the various keyboard layouts on Github: https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/keyboa... Som…

Yes, it's fine to have both -- no objection from me.

However, switching keyboard layouts tends to be difficult for most people, and the gains are generally rather small. Many if not most users would be better off devoting the same amount of time to improving their touch-typing on QWERTY than to switching layouts.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#123

Post by WaltPurvis »

The objections to the Colemak layout seem kind of bogus to me. I use Colemak and none of these things are issues for me at all.

>Typing ‘HE’ forced the hand to make a very unnatural sideways twisting motion from the wrist and then back again.

Really? I just extend my right index finger half an inch to the left and type the E — my wrist doesn't twist or move at all (at least not perceptibly).

>Try typing “The” with the T capitalized on Colemak and hopefully you’ll see what I mean. Your right hand will move somewhat like this: you swing to the right to get the SHIFT key with your pinky, then you swing back to the left to get the letter ‘H’, and then you move to the right again to get the letter ‘E’.

That makes no sense at all. Why in the world would you use the right shift key for this? I just extend my left pinky a little bit to hold down the left shift key while I type the T.

>I really wanted Colemak to work however I can’t live with the H-E movement and having to reach for D and H often.

There's hardly any movement or reaching required to type D and H. You're just moving your index finger a fraction of an inch to the side. The rest of your fingers and your hands don't move at all.

I can't see anything here that would motivate me to ditch Colemak.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#124

Post by zZorgz »

scholia wrote: post #121
zZorgz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to use a split keyboard but now I just stick with Apple's flat keyboards. I don't buy it anymore that they're more ergonomic. The "extra rest space" on my MS split keyboard I've actually found to be detrimental for me. Besides, people also use laptops and may not want to swap their keyboard.

Well, they're more ergonomic because you can align your hands with your arms, instead of twisting your hands at an angle. This is a matter of fact. You are entitled to prefer a flat keyboard -- that's entirely your choice -- but it doesn't change the ergonomic reality. > Besides, people also use laptops and may not want to swap their keyboard. Laptops are not ergonomic, and nobody who knows the facts will use them fo…

Out of curiosity I google searched ergonomic keyboards, found Wikipedia page, saw it stated they may reduce risks of injury but that there is no clear evidence of benefit.

My own reality is I used a "ergonomic" labeled keyboard that I felt caused me more discomfort.

Of course there are convenience trade offs somewhere and laptops to me fall under convenience.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#125

Post by 1123581321 »

pklausler wrote: post #83
coldtea wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The benefits of switching from the painful Sholes (QWERTY) layout to anything designed for comfort are huge. Are there really? I find relevant studies lacking, not to mention this: https://www.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html Also the whole DVORAK vs QWERTY thing presupposes we are all 20th century secretaries or novel writers and english at that, when in reality, we as programmers: 1) Have different patterns than…

I'm glad to see skepticism on this claim, and I don't have any good modern UX studies to point to. Anecdotally, I was going home with scary numbness on the backs of my hands and fingers at the ends of days of heavy shell interaction, despite touch-typing. Switching to Dvorak's layout cleared that problem up immediately and it hasn't returned in 24 years.

Same. Typing became physically painful. I had an opportunity to go cold turkey on Dvorak. I got to my old speed and the problem has not re-emerged since.

I don't know if the ramp-up period was simply slow enough to let my hands get a break and heal. Regardless, I can recommend the process of switching from Qwerty to Dvorak as a cure.

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#126

Post by voiper1 »

When I decided to learn touch typing, I went for Colemak. He's riffing on colemak and frankly, I don't understand it at all. He starts with "The" is so hard on your hand!"... I use the left shift and hitting H with my hands in neutral position I only move ONE finger... Happy colemak user here.

Although it's a bit annoying when games require/built around QWERTY or other users need it. But I've mapped CTRL-1 to normal and CTRL-2 to Corsican Colemak mappings on windows 7

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#127

Post by voiper1 »

WaltPurvis wrote: post #123

The objections to the Colemak layout seem kind of bogus to me. I use Colemak and none of these things are issues for me at all. >Typing ‘HE’ forced the hand to make a very unnatural sideways twisting motion from the wrist and then back again. Really? I just extend my right index finger half an inch to the left and type the E — my wrist doesn't twist or move at all (at least not perceptibly). >Try typing “The” with th…

EXACTLY my response. Happy colemak user here!

Re: Workman Keyboard layout

#128

Post by Graziano_M »

I chose Colemak about 8 months ago after a bunch of research and haven't looked back. Some important things, beyond the ease metrics:

- Don't move too many keys that are used for hotkeys: zxcv qw h a are not moved.

- Let me move around vim in a sane way. hjkl are kind of a reach now, but they are all under my left index.

- Make sure my `readline` hotkeys are easy to read. a r f b n p y u are all good. g is a bit of a stretch.

- It's common enough that I don't have to install custom software on every computer I use. It's on OSX and in the firmware of many mechanical keyboards.

qwerty is garbage, and it's a real shame that it's here to stay, and I feel bad that I had to 'settle' for a layout that has some keys borrowed, but I am a realistic more than an idealistic and colemak definitely still hits on the important points for me.

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