Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 213 posts

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#31

Post by peterkshultz »

jamesroseman wrote: post #13

I think a reality that will hopefully soon catch up with societal stigma in the United States is that college isn't right for everyone. I understand this as a separate point from college being unattainably expensive, but it is an important point. I have friends who would be mechanics, Peace Corps volunteers, electricians, or plumbers if they hadn't instead gone to a private 4-year institution, pressured to attend the…

A big proponent of the type of things you're talking about is Mike Rowe.

He created a foundation "that rewards people with a passion to get trained for skilled jobs that actually exist": http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#32

Post by nine_k »

cheald wrote: post #21

And yet, college enrollment continues to trend upward. The price continues to climb, but it's clearly not unaffordable yet. http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_302.60.as...

It's financed by debt. That is, it's probably already unaffordable because the debts are going to be crippling, but it's not felt yet.

It's like you're already severely poisoned but are not yet feeling the effects, and more people around see you and consider the poison for themselves.

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#33

Post by tptacek »

vkou wrote: post #19
tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression from my peer group is that most people from my generation that went to college take on significant debt to do it. Isn't this basically the normal path people take to pay their way through college? (I didn't go.) Having kids is obviously a deeply personal decision and don't think I'm second-guessing you, but college funding is probably not a dispositive concern.

Most people are not children of two working, well-educated professionals. If that family can't afford to give their children a future without selling them into debt, the American dream is truly dead.

I mean, I agree that they're not children of the elite, but they go to college anyways. College debt is annoying, but I'd be surprised to hear it's a top 5 concern for any of them.

For whatever it's worth, the idea that the "American Dream" requires a college education is itself a little weird.

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#34

Post by andrewprock »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

My partner and I - both well-educated and well-employed professionals - sketched out our long-term financial plan recently. The only way we envisioned owning property would be to build our own a considerable distance away from our small city's center. That alone proved to be a significant part of our budget, which is already under considerable pressure from student loans and car payments. We estimated the expenses fo…

Not having kids because you can't pay for their tuition given your current earnings is a quite novel position to take. When college was cheaper, people still had children. Many of those children did not go to college.

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#35

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

mturmon wrote: post #29
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

My partner and I - both well-educated and well-employed professionals - sketched out our long-term financial plan recently. The only way we envisioned owning property would be to build our own a considerable distance away from our small city's center. That alone proved to be a significant part of our budget, which is already under considerable pressure from student loans and car payments. We estimated the expenses fo…

I don't know your numbers, and the following is thus presumptuous, for which I apologize in advance. But: from what you've written, it seems like you're overthinking it. You're still paying off student loans and you're worrying about a child-bearing decision that you could put off until almost 40 years of age? Somewhere between now and then, one of your assumptions may change.

My partner is older than I am. Her age is imperative to child-bearing. The older a parent has a child, the more at risk the child is for birth defects and other health problems. Having a child that late - assuming we can afford one by then - while being aware of their potential health implications is simply selfish. If I'm going to have children, I'm doing it for them.

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#36

Post by squozzer »

nofinator wrote: post #8
squozzer wrote: post #2

Solutions -- 1) Wait for the bubble to pop and see if prices reach a new equilibrium. 2) Double-down on current solutions, i.e. more subsidies. 3) Impose a head tax on everyone a la Obamacare.

Obamacare doesn't have a head tax. It has a mandate and a tax penalty, and the penalty is proportional to income with a ceiling.

OK, so I over-simplified the process a little. You have to pay someone who is not the government. To merely exist sets the criterion for the mandate. The penalty is not flat rate, but has a floor. SCOTUS ruled in upholding ACA that Congress has a constitutional right under Article I to levy taxes.

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#37

Post by SilasX »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #15
sp332 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I misunderstood, but you're not having kids because you might not afford to send them to college? Edit: I just wanted to point out that the sticker price is usually not what people pay for college. Grants are very common and so are scholarships of various kinds and sizes. But beyond all that, you can opt-in to this repayment plan https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/education/higher-education... which caps the…

We aren't going to have kids we can't support. Right now we absolutely cannot, and even in five years time things will still be looking relatively tight. We might be able by then to scrape together a down payment on a mortgage, or have a child, but not both. The biological window gets smaller by the day. Why bother?

Personally, I don't think that's wise. 20 years is a long time and the whole setup is getting more ridiculous by the day. I fully expect that it will collapse under its own weight before your kids have to make the decision.

(Nothing necessarily explosive, just something like "alternate routes into white-collar well-paid entry-level work will be well-trod at that point, avoiding the need for expensive college or bidding it down.")

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#38

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

andrewprock wrote: post #34
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

My partner and I - both well-educated and well-employed professionals - sketched out our long-term financial plan recently. The only way we envisioned owning property would be to build our own a considerable distance away from our small city's center. That alone proved to be a significant part of our budget, which is already under considerable pressure from student loans and car payments. We estimated the expenses fo…

Not having kids because you can't pay for their tuition given your current earnings is a quite novel position to take. When college was cheaper, people still had children. Many of those children did not go to college.

Most jobs require college degrees and work experience, even if the person can be trained on the job. My children could be excellent but have neither of those things and if just one person with a degree and some halfway decent dress sense walks in the door, my kids' resumes will be in the trash in an instant.

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#39

Post by gist »

tptacek wrote: post #10
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #3

My partner and I - both well-educated and well-employed professionals - sketched out our long-term financial plan recently. The only way we envisioned owning property would be to build our own a considerable distance away from our small city's center. That alone proved to be a significant part of our budget, which is already under considerable pressure from student loans and car payments. We estimated the expenses fo…

My impression from my peer group is that most people from my generation that went to college take on significant debt to do it. Isn't this basically the normal path people take to pay their way through college? (I didn't go.) Having kids is obviously a deeply personal decision and don't think I'm second-guessing you, but college funding is probably not a dispositive concern.

The problem with college is not that you have "significant debt". The problem is choosing majors and/or a career path that doesn't allow you to pay off that debt.

My wife has "significant debt" from college and medical school (roughly 200k) that she will pay off over 20 to 30 years (or whatever it is). However she earns a good salary for what she does. As a result the cost of the education is similar to a cost of doing business. When I met her I had to loan her a few thousand dollars so she could make her rent (when she had just graduated and got her first job out of school). Now she does fine. Even with the loans. She choose the profession and was lucky to be able to graduate keeping in mind economic realities.

Her ex husband on the other hand has debt from going to law school but was not able to land (for various reasons) a good job which allows him to pay off his debt (he is now living with his parents).

Saying college is expensive (ok it is) is like saying buying a house with a 30 year mortgage is expensive. It depends on the details. Having to take out a loan to pay for something (college or a house) that you will use over a lifetime isn't really that outrageous. What is is not making the proper career choices or having some bad luck so that you can't pay back the money you have borrowed.

Re: College Unaffordable Even in Higher Income Brackets

#40

Post by squozzer »

SilasX wrote: post #9
wyager wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4) Stop having the government pay the exorbitant cost of state schools and making inappropriately large loans available to students.

5) Stop whatever makes a college education the popular entry ticket to middle class.

5.1) Stop using a college degree as a resume filter.
Post reply on HN