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California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

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Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#91

Post by hkarthik »

I went the opposite route as most. I was remote for 3 years from Texas and then moved to the Bay Area for work. And I have a family of four.

Key aspects that make it work for me are the following:

* Accept a long commute to a more family-friendly community with good schools.

* Live near BART and use it everyday.

* Work in the city, not the South Bay.

* Make sure you have two strong professional incomes.

* Pay for good quality child care and/or after school care.

* Pay the high housing costs and accept that you will redirect a good portion of your investments towards housing here. And it won't be as nice.

All in all its been worth it for me. I am working with extremely smart, driven people who I am learning a ton from. I don't have to hide my political views, and everyone has been open and accepting. It has been very easy for us to make great friends in a short time.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#92

Post by api »

netcan wrote: post #48
sideband wrote: post #33

There's some sort of Stockholm syndrome prevalent among too many Bay Area residents that compels them to accept the lower quality of life. I lived there for several years until recently, and it was a surreal experience to hear others discuss the sacrifices they were making just to have a roof over their family's head, to provide a half-decent education for their children. And these were well-payed folks at the brand-…

It's not just SF. It's big cities around the world. They are drawing in more people than ever. Most have housing/transport issues that present as high cost of living. People still keep pouring in and successful cities stand out in terms of household income. Even as the internet makes geography less relevant, the competition for living in cities keeps growing.

I've seen the "alpha cities" phenomenon explode since 2000. Where you live has become a proxy for your competence, importance, etc.

I'm not convinced it's not the Internet. Google "FOMO" for a possible mechanism. The Internet makes it easy for large cities, by sheer social mass, to send out a louder cultural signal and convince everyone else they are missing something by not being there. Talk to a young midwesterner and you will hear many whose ambition is to "get to NY," with this vague sense that magic will happen when they do. This draws more young ambitious people, which amplifies the effect. Eventually if you are not in SF or NYC you are nobody.

This isn't new, but I do wonder if the net is amplifying it.

I also wonder if wealth stratification is playing a role. Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#93

Post by CaptSpify »

sideband wrote: post #33

There's some sort of Stockholm syndrome prevalent among too many Bay Area residents that compels them to accept the lower quality of life. I lived there for several years until recently, and it was a surreal experience to hear others discuss the sacrifices they were making just to have a roof over their family's head, to provide a half-decent education for their children. And these were well-payed folks at the brand-…

eh, it just depends on what you want. Some people's priorities are different, and their tipping points are different. I live in an "overpriced" city, but I love it here. I've also lived in CA, TN, MO, so I've seen a pretty large range of high to low cost living. I'd much rather be in a large, expensive city than a small, cheap one.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#94

Post by ryan-c »

pixl97 wrote: post #10
up_and_up wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. Speaking as someone who lived in the bay area for 4 years and happily left after college, why live in CA when you can work remotely from anywhere else, live well, own a sizable property, and make decent bank? The bay area is great to visit, I was literally just there a couple months ago. But to live I would need to make 4x what I do now.

Well, the weather is nice in many places, and it has some beautiful scenery. Probably why so many people live there in the first place. Texas on the other hand is hot and flat. Really boring here. Oh and it's too crowded. Yep, if you're from California Texas is worse. Don't want to move here. Please stop moving here, please, oh god please.

Recently moved from the bay area to Austin. I hate the weather and the bugs. I plan to move back eventually.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#96

Post by pj_mukh »

hkarthik wrote: post #91

I went the opposite route as most. I was remote for 3 years from Texas and then moved to the Bay Area for work. And I have a family of four. Key aspects that make it work for me are the following: * Accept a long commute to a more family-friendly community with good schools. * Live near BART and use it everyday. * Work in the city, not the South Bay. * Make sure you have two strong professional incomes. * Pay for goo…

"I am working with extremely smart, driven people who I am learning a ton from."

This is something being overlooked completely. There aren't a lot of other places that have this concentration of progressive minded bright (tech and non-tech) individuals. Great things will come out of this density. It sucks that the non-techies are being pushed out, but that should accelerate the need for housing reform. This density must be maintained and made widely accessible.

Vote. Call your rep. http://www.dof.ca.gov/budgeting/trailer_bill_language/local_...

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#97

Post by balabaster »

overcast wrote: post #42
sideband wrote: post #33

There's some sort of Stockholm syndrome prevalent among too many Bay Area residents that compels them to accept the lower quality of life. I lived there for several years until recently, and it was a surreal experience to hear others discuss the sacrifices they were making just to have a roof over their family's head, to provide a half-decent education for their children. And these were well-payed folks at the brand-…

It's interesting to hear these experiences from people that live there. Because there is certainly a romanticized version of it we see on the East Coast. Living in upstate New York, we have tons of wilderness areas, and relatively cheap living conditions. The grind out in California, just to say you live there, sounds scary.

But it's not just the grind to say you live there, it's the grind to work at (in many cases) the top tech companies in the world. The big question has to be: Is having the top tech company's name on your resume, or working on the kinds of projects that these companies are working on worth the grind of living in that area? In some cases, the answer will be yes; in others, I've gotta say I'd be hard pushed to agree - though for many people, the reasons to stay outrank the reasons to leave and that will be different for everyone.

Of course, I just moved to a farm in the country so I wouldn't have to deal with all that nonsense :P

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#98

Post by Retric »

guftagu wrote: post #63
sphinx65 wrote: post #46

This is happening almost everywhere, but at a less frightening pace than CA. And we are told continually by the chattering class and politicians that skyrocketing real estate prices - asset inflation - is a good thing. Since forever a stable residential real estate market was the goal and people understood its value. Now we're all gamblers, meaning losers. When the hedge funds and REIT's stop speculating in residenti…

Why would they stop and pull out?

Bubbles act as de facto Ponzi schemes.

As money movies in prices inflate and returns are good. This attracts more money. However, it's the flow of money which is generating above market returns which requires exponential increases to keep returns up. Exponential growth is never sustainable so eventually new money can't keep up which lowers the returns. This further reduces the influx of money, further depressing returns. This pops the bubble.

Of note, the 401k system did similar things to the stock market which ended up reducing returns. In the end exponential returns are only viable when the outflow of money is greater than the inflow enabling a steady state. Eventually returns will end up averaging out as if that influx never happened, but it's going to take decades.

EX: A farm get's a fixed amount of sunlight, it can increase efficiency up to a point, but in the end it's going to output a fixed amount of food A huge range of things have increased in value because other parts of the economy improve. But, this is limited by overall economic growth. Also of note long term market manipulations are counter productive. You can prop up housing prices by reducing future returns.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#99

Post by throwanem »

guftagu wrote: post #63
sphinx65 wrote: post #46

This is happening almost everywhere, but at a less frightening pace than CA. And we are told continually by the chattering class and politicians that skyrocketing real estate prices - asset inflation - is a good thing. Since forever a stable residential real estate market was the goal and people understood its value. Now we're all gamblers, meaning losers. When the hedge funds and REIT's stop speculating in residenti…

Why would they stop and pull out?

Why did they in 2008?

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#100

Post by throwanem »

linuxlizard wrote: post #82

Come to Boise, Idaho (USA). We need high tech people. Excellent quality of life, low commutes. https://www.tsheets.com/living-in-boise/ (I don't work at T-Sheets but they have a great page on living in Boise.) Also in Boise: Micron, HP's laser printer division.

If I hadn't stayed in Baltimore, I probably would've ended up in Boise. It's a lovely town.
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