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Results of Rust Survey 2016 – early draft for internal usage

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Re: Results of Rust Survey 2016 – early draft for internal usage

#41
post #8

How come there are as many women (47) answering this survey as trans people? Is there anything in the Rust community that is hostile to women but not trans people? In fact trans people appear to be over-represented in this survey as 1.7% of people in it were trans compared to optimistic 0.3% of the US being transgender [0] [0] https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-US-population-i...

Most female devs I know are trans women. So maybe they are over-represented in the dev-world in general?

Re: Results of Rust Survey 2016 – early draft for internal usage

#42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! I'd love to hear more about your experience, though perhaps once you have worked a bit more on the project :) Eh, early adoption is overrated -- you have to fight through lack of docs, lack of libraries, and general ecosystem issues, all while the language keeps changing underneath you :P (Note that not everyone who works on Rust; or even who worked on this survey, is a guy)

Note that many people use the term "guy" without relation to sex or even being a person.

I know. I'm not questioning the intention, I'm requesting the term not be used that way -- it is known to alienate people.

Re: Results of Rust Survey 2016 – early draft for internal usage

#45
post #8

How come there are as many women (47) answering this survey as trans people? Is there anything in the Rust community that is hostile to women but not trans people? In fact trans people appear to be over-represented in this survey as 1.7% of people in it were trans compared to optimistic 0.3% of the US being transgender [0] [0] https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-US-population-i...

Hostile may be jumping to conclusions. It's a small number, and it's a self-selected sample. Small change in any of the numbers will result in big ratio change. Unless someone actually claims hostile behaviour, why expect it?

Either way, the trans population is very much overrepresented in the survey. You took one of the sources from the link which claims 0.3%. The next source which I would trust (DSM-5 stats) claims 0.005-0.014% natal male and 0.002-0.003% natal female for gender dysphoria.

Re: Results of Rust Survey 2016 – early draft for internal usage

#46
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the details in rust's case, but I wouldn't consider it a violation of semver if the code which broke in a minor update was doing bad things (maybe accidentally exploiting a bug or limitation in the language or implementation, probably by violating some requirement that wasn't checked properly, etc) and simply couldn't be correct code if left alone.

How do you define a "bad thing"? The semver spec is quite clear about "even the tiniest backwards incompatible changes" ( http://semver.org/#if-even-the-tiniest-backwards-incompatibl... ) requiring a major version bump.

It may not be considered a backwards incompatible change to rust if it no longer compiles invalid code.

If the code never worked correctly, but silently compiled, one would think a breaking change was welcomed.

Re: Results of Rust Survey 2016 – early draft for internal usage

#47
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your work guys. I took part in the survey when I found it on Reddit. Yesterday I started my first project in two new technologies, Rust and GTK. That's completely different experience and perspective of designing code after years of C++(Qt) and Java(backend). Now I wish I was earlier adopter :)

Thank you! I'd love to hear more about your experience, though perhaps once you have worked a bit more on the project :) Eh, early adoption is overrated -- you have to fight through lack of docs, lack of libraries, and general ecosystem issues, all while the language keeps changing underneath you :P (Note that not everyone who works on Rust; or even who worked on this survey, is a guy)

> I'd love to hear more about your experience

I had good experience integrating glade (GTK GUI generator) to Rust, but bad experience with getting auto-complete working in Eclipse, in fact it's still not working ;) It's a pain when I using new technologies (both Rust and GTK are new to me). I want to change its state from `checked` to `unchecked`, and I don't know what's name of the method that does it, it can be setState(bool) setChecked(bool), setEnabled(bool), setActive... you know what I mean, the method is there, but checking docs just to get method name is annoying. I'll try it in vim later today.

My goal is to write (simple) desktop sharing application. Any thoughts how hard can it be? I need OS-integration, ffmpeg to catch screen, integration with decoding video stream without bloating systems...

Re: Results of Rust Survey 2016 – early draft for internal usage

#48

The first diagram shows that 35.5% of respondents don't use, or stopped using , rust. Its a shame they don't break this down between those who have never used it vs those who have stopped using it. At the end of the results there's talk about why those who don't use rust don't use it, but again it doesn't separate out why people have never used it vs why people have stopped using it. I imagine it would be a very inte…

I'd also like to see that. I'm in the "temporarily stopped using" camp. I love it, I got to the level where I don't fight the language anymore, but facing reality - I don't have a reason to use it. Everything I do at the moment, I can finish faster in Python and I know it's enough. (sysadmin / deployment / security tools)

The moment I need good performance and safety (new protocol server?), I'll reach for Rust. But I don't have that many real problems where it's worth it.

Re: Results of Rust Survey 2016 – early draft for internal usage

#49
post #8

How come there are as many women (47) answering this survey as trans people? Is there anything in the Rust community that is hostile to women but not trans people? In fact trans people appear to be over-represented in this survey as 1.7% of people in it were trans compared to optimistic 0.3% of the US being transgender [0] [0] https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-the-US-population-i...

Hostile may be jumping to conclusions. It's a small number, and it's a self-selected sample. Small change in any of the numbers will result in big ratio change. Unless someone actually claims hostile behaviour, why expect it? Either way, the trans population is very much overrepresented in the survey. You took one of the sources from the link which claims 0.3%. The next source which I would trust (DSM-5 stats) claims…

The reason I said hostile is that in most discussions on Hacker News and Reddit a lot of people argue that the only reason women are so under-represented in tech is that all the guys are very hostile to women. This survey goes against that. For some reason they refuse to believe that some things are more interesting to women than men and vice versa.

Re: Results of Rust Survey 2016 – early draft for internal usage

#50
post #40

Author here. Hi all - thanks for the interest in the survey! The Rust community team is still working the blog post (this link was to an early draft), and we're looking forward to posting it when it's done.

I think this survey was very poorly publicized. As somebody who only dabbles in Rust, this is the first I have heard of this survey. I am sure that others are in the same boat as I am. We would have participated, but we learned about it weeks after it closed!

Only now do I see the blog article, and a submission here [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11661056] that got no traction. I don't remember seeing any sort of a notice on the main Rust web site.

The fact that many participants were excluded, albeit unintentionally, makes me really question the completeness, and hence the validity and usefulness, of this survey data.

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