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Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

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Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#351

Post by bdcs »

kevb wrote: post #336
markbao wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great point. I wonder if there's an elegant/clean way to denote that something is vegan but not changed to be vegan. "Naturally fat-free" is good, and the sort of plant logo that some restaurants use at least avoid the word "vegan" which may help.

Sometimes plant-based is used as a more socially acceptable word for "vegan". I think there's also a difference between titling a product "vegan" and specifying that it is vegan. "Vegan donuts" isn't as appealing to non-vegans as "Donuts (vegan)". Likewise I'd be discouraged to get something labeled "Gluten free cookies", but if I saw "Oatmeal chocolate chip cookies (gluten-free)" I wouldn't hold it against them.

On a related note: When I was vegan, I said I exclusively ate things made from plants. It was better received and understood. Also I would antagonize friends by giving them vegan pb&js, vegan pickles, vegan French fries, vegan Coke, etc.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#352

Post by bdcs »

eggman47 wrote: post #297
munificent wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem here is that "vegan" is used to describe two different things: 1. A product that has been changed to not use any animal products. 2. A product that already fits within those constraints. Products in the former group have a history of being noticeably worse than their non-vegan counterpart, so "vegan" carries the stigma of "tastes worse than it looks". That stigma then wafts over to products in the…

I think there's room for a third category, "things that need to be changed inconsequentially". Many recipes have egg or gelatine in them for functional purposes; usually as "glue" to hold things together, like in pancakes, where you aren't including the eggs for their flavour. You can easily replace them with vegan alternatives like ground flax. As a bonus it is usually cheaper and as dry ingredients they keep foreve…

Btw the liquid in a can of garbanzo beans works great as a plant derived eeg replacement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquafaba

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#353

Post by Jaruzel »

rocho wrote: post #345
toomanybeersies wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sheer scale of industrialisation of livestock is an American thing, especially with beef. Most Beef in the world is grass fed, and not pumped full of antibiotics. Generally animals are more or less left in a field until they're old enough, then taken in a slaughtered.

Yeah right, "in the field". Nowadays you can do old-style animal farming if you have three cows and want to sustain you own family. Otherwise, if you want to sell it, it's just not cost effective. - http://www.rollingstone.com/feature/belly-beast-meat-factory... - https://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/9031-Ch...

Counter argument for that with regard to the UK:

http://assurance.redtractor.org.uk/

Most quality beef sold in UK is governed by the Red Tractor food standards and welfare scheme.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#354

Post by eru »

bdcs wrote: post #351
kevb wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes plant-based is used as a more socially acceptable word for "vegan". I think there's also a difference between titling a product "vegan" and specifying that it is vegan. "Vegan donuts" isn't as appealing to non-vegans as "Donuts (vegan)". Likewise I'd be discouraged to get something labeled "Gluten free cookies", but if I saw "Oatmeal chocolate chip cookies (gluten-free)" I wouldn't hold it against them.

On a related note: When I was vegan, I said I exclusively ate things made from plants. It was better received and understood. Also I would antagonize friends by giving them vegan pb&js, vegan pickles, vegan French fries, vegan Coke, etc.

No mushrooms or fermented products for you?

(I know you were just trying to give people a simplified model.)

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#355

Post by eru »

rocho wrote: post #345
toomanybeersies wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sheer scale of industrialisation of livestock is an American thing, especially with beef. Most Beef in the world is grass fed, and not pumped full of antibiotics. Generally animals are more or less left in a field until they're old enough, then taken in a slaughtered.

Yeah right, "in the field". Nowadays you can do old-style animal farming if you have three cows and want to sustain you own family. Otherwise, if you want to sell it, it's just not cost effective. - http://www.rollingstone.com/feature/belly-beast-meat-factory... - https://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/9031-Ch...

Depends on country, I guess? Argentina and Australia might have enough land to pull it off.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#356

Post by eru »

mixedCase wrote: post #322
MustardTiger wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of people who need to be on a keto diet is incredibly tiny though. Most people who are on them do not need to be, all evidence shows low carb diets are equally effective regardless of ketosis or not.

>all evidence shows low carb diets are equally effective regardless of ketosis or not. Well I will take my anecdotic evidence (and my girlfriend's, and two friends') over your scientific studies. Fat and protein make me feel full well below my caloric needs for maintaining the same weight; I am hardly ever full with carbs, and even when my stomach feel fulls, my brain keeps wanting me to eat.

What you quoted from MustardTiger doesn't contradict what you said..

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#357

Post by eru »

mcbits wrote: post #338
mixedCase wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>all evidence shows low carb diets are equally effective regardless of ketosis or not. Well I will take my anecdotic evidence (and my girlfriend's, and two friends') over your scientific studies. Fat and protein make me feel full well below my caloric needs for maintaining the same weight; I am hardly ever full with carbs, and even when my stomach feel fulls, my brain keeps wanting me to eat.

I don't understand low-carb/keto diets, outside of treating an actual disease. A person can eat 5-10 lbs. of "wet" (i.e. not grains and starches) fruits and vegetables a day and stay well below 2,000 calories, rounding it off with some fish, nuts, etc. for protein and oils. It's physically difficult to eat 1,000 calories of salad at 100-200 calories/pound. The problem is it also costs about 5 times as much as a class…

Depends on what you see as a disease.

For some people, it's the only thing that loses some them weight. (Obesity is a disease?)

I am currently giving it a try to see whether it has any benefits for my concentration. (Inattentiveness is a disease?)

Plants are fun. I still eat lots of non-starchy ones.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#358

Post by eru »

paulmd wrote: post #326
steveax wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure if you're willing to exclude the externalities. What's the societal cost of antibiotic resistant escherichia coli?

The US is fixing that problem. Starting December 2016, a vet must examine and prescribe antibiotics for each animal; it will no longer be allowable to preemptively dose an entire herd just to enhance production. http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProce... Obviously it doesn't fix it for China though, which is where a lot of the drug-resistant bugs are coming from...

That's encouraging. I hope that regulation will have teeth.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#359

Post by eru »

cname wrote: post #314
pombrand wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge problem with the vegan meat replacements is that they're a lot more expensive than beef, around $7/lb vs ground beef at $3/lb. Like with coal vs solar, for imitation meat to win the market it needs to get less expensive than real meat (and taste as good).

You can't just compare to ground beef though. Plenty of meat and cheese products are the same price or more than equivalent meat alternatives. [Aside: Actually, it's kind of interesting to consider that meat alternatives top out at a relatively low price point, whereas meat, fish, etc can get really expensive.] Just like in the meat market, there are cheaper and more expensive meat alternatives. Compare tofu at ~$2/l…

Cheese also has no upper price limit.

You can pay a lot for plant-based food, but that's much more of a niche interest.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#360

Post by mcbits »

cmurf wrote: post #347
mcbits wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand low-carb/keto diets, outside of treating an actual disease. A person can eat 5-10 lbs. of "wet" (i.e. not grains and starches) fruits and vegetables a day and stay well below 2,000 calories, rounding it off with some fish, nuts, etc. for protein and oils. It's physically difficult to eat 1,000 calories of salad at 100-200 calories/pound. The problem is it also costs about 5 times as much as a class…

Bag of chips, $2. Head of romaine 99¢. I can eat a bag of chips. I doubt I can eat that whole head of lettuce. By the time I add sunflower seeds, tomato, bit of goat or parmesan cheese, chopped olives I still think it's less or about the same price as chips.

Exactly, and the bag of chips is at least 1,000 calories. Up to 2,500 calories if we're talking about those generic ripple chips. The lettuce is 50-100 calories. If you're getting most of your daily calories from the likes of lettuce, spinach, tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, zucchini, broccoli, etc., you can eat steadily all day and still have a hard time hitting 2,000 due to the sheer bulk. But it's gonna cost.
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