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No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

hypatia.ca

41–50 of 148 posts

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#41

A fairly boring Op-ed with some dangerous ideas about automatic guilt, using twitter as a source... Well, for you 4 disagreeing, give me your thoughts on this? At first pass it is exactly what I said.

The author uses first-hand experience as a source: https://hypatia.ca/2016/06/07/he-said-they-said/

And criticising something important as "boring" is very dismissive.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#42
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember, this is aimed at employers and open-source projects, not the justice system. Besides, what alternative are you suggesting? Start with the assumption that harassment reports are false, and throw them in the trash?

It's not up to open source maintainers to act as a poor mirror of the judicial system. If someone is breaking the law, the authorities should handle it. If the accused is found guilty, then they can be kicked out of the project/fired...

Criminal law uses the "beyond all reasonable doubt" burden of proof.

Civil law uses the "balance of probabilities" burden of proof.

A project kicking out a member doesn't have to meet any burden of proof, they just have to show that they're not being discriminatory.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly did nothing good for the video-game industry. cough Daikatana cough I think you're right, and the "rock star" pattern looks similar wherever it crops up, with similar fallout. It's only the tolerance for it which varies.

John Romero was a rockstar, but his attitude only affected Ion Storm/Daikatana, not other people. And that was more than a decade ago.

Those two qualifiers don't change anything, and since I never specified anything relating to either...

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#44

Some programmers are dramatically better than others......some of those top programmers are jerks, some aren't (just like every segment of society). I always called those top programmers rockstars, but apparently that's the wrong term.....what should they be called then?

> I always called those top programmers rockstars

That was a well known usage for the term. This blog post is trying to redefine "rockstar" but you/we don't have to go along with the language policing.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#45
Rock stars are good at what they do and most of the time earn that label. Don't form a gang and hurt productivity of your team/company. If someone is working hard to earn a rockstar label don't penalize them.

You will probably need rock stars and plumbers getting along well. If someone is a bad employee rockstar or otherwise that needs to be dealt properly.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#46

There should be no abuse - sexual or otherwise - in tech communities. Please call it out whenever you see it, in a polite but firm manner, and don't be afraid or intimidated by it. The vast majority of people will support you, and it's important to do so not only for your own protection but for others that might not be so willing or able to do the same. That said, something about the tone of this blog post is utterly…

There's a weak undercurrent of condescension in the post (I've seen worse from Model View Culture); you may be picking up on that. I'm more interested in the un(der)examined assertion that, when it comes to accusations of sexual misconduct, the accused should have a presumption of guilt . Have there been any published arguments in favor of this?

If you see something happen yourself, then you should call it out. You just saw them do something so you know they are guilty (or maybe they just did something to you!), so it is your responsibility to call them out immediately. Don't let it slide or wait for later or wait for the police. Right then, right there, do something.

If people do this as often as they see things happen, no matter how big or how small, then the problem people would soon become obvious to everyone. Each individual can decide for themselves who to believe, based on the full availability of the evidence, that is now right in the open for everyone to see.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#47
post #41

A fairly boring Op-ed with some dangerous ideas about automatic guilt, using twitter as a source... Well, for you 4 disagreeing, give me your thoughts on this? At first pass it is exactly what I said.

The author uses first-hand experience as a source: https://hypatia.ca/2016/06/07/he-said-they-said/ And criticising something important as "boring" is very dismissive.

So, perhaps that would explain the extreme jump from jerk to sexual deviant and the clear tone being taken in the opening.

However great first hand experience is for ted talks, it is generally relegated to very low on the quantifiable scale for corporations and the business community in general.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#48
post #13

'Start with the assumption that harassment reports are true and investigate them thoroughly' Sorry, what? We have this whole ideal of "innocent until proven guilty" in America (and many other places) so you can kindly take this nonsense elsewhere.

Remember, this is aimed at employers and open-source projects, not the justice system. Besides, what alternative are you suggesting? Start with the assumption that harassment reports are false, and throw them in the trash?

Perhaps they should start with no assumptions, thoroughly investigate the issue, and let the evidence speak for itself.

Why does this 'rule' applying to organizations make it any different? It is always morally shady (at least, unfair) to assume by default that someone is guilty without any sort of process.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#49
post #13

'Start with the assumption that harassment reports are true and investigate them thoroughly' Sorry, what? We have this whole ideal of "innocent until proven guilty" in America (and many other places) so you can kindly take this nonsense elsewhere.

Remember, this is aimed at employers and open-source projects, not the justice system. Besides, what alternative are you suggesting? Start with the assumption that harassment reports are false, and throw them in the trash?

Somewhere in between.

For example:

We recognize that false reports are very unlikely, but we also recognize there is currently an enormous social bonus awarded to victims of harassment, particularly female victims. Let's examine all the facts, and even if we can't gather enough evidence to take any action, we'll keep a record of this report for any future incidents.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#50

Don't sleep with people you work with. Don't drink if you can't control yourself or can't trust the people you are with. Don't do drugs if you can't control yourself or trust the people you are with. Problem solved!

Wow, that's hugely insensitive. Why not try it from another angle and save on typing: "Don't abuse people. Problem solved!"
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