No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities • Hacker News Board

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#21

Post by protomyth » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:35 PM UTC

It seems like they are redefining rock star in the "A rock star likes to be the center of attention." paragraph. I am getting a little sick of the trend[1] of redefining a word to mean something else. Given this, a genuine complement of calling someone a "rock star" should probably be met with a hostility.

The line "A rock star appears in dozens of magazine profiles – and never, ever tells the journalist to talk to the people actually doing the practical everyday work." is particularly galling. If you are not doing the work, how the heck would you legitimately be called a rock star?

I think the love of tearing down people is echoed in the love of taking words that meant exceptional and making them mean destructive things. Hero and hero words die far too often.

1) its been going on a long time and sometimes I think its an insider trick to know who to award grants to (e.g. "empowerment" was my personal favorite).

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#22

Post by chris_7 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:35 PM UTC

This one:

    Avoid organizations becoming too central to people’s lives

Seems at odds with this one:

    Enforce strict policies around sexual or romantic relationships within power structures

Due to the use of the terms "organization" and "community" instead of "company" or an equivalent, it's unclear if they are referring entirely to employment (where such a prohibition would be pretty common and mundane), or if they are also including open-source projects, where it would seem like a huge intrusion. Submitting an issue or pull request shouldn't have any effect on your ability to date someone.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#23

Post by shrewduser » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:35 PM UTC

That is an extremely long bow to draw...

the author seems to have picked up on a case of a narcissistic possibly deviant and then tarnished all people who excel / lead with the same brush.

this reeks of tall poppy syndrome, i can't even believe what i'm reading.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#24

Post by tptacek » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:36 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #21

It seems like they are redefining rock star in the "A rock star likes to be the center of attention." paragraph. I am getting a little sick of the trend[1] of redefining a word to mean something else. Given this, a genuine complement of calling someone a "rock star" should probably be met with a hostility. The line "A rock star appears in dozens of magazine profiles – and never, ever tells the journalist to talk to t…

I don't know why people who don't do the real work get the magazine articles and conference talks, but if we're talking about security --- the community being criticized (from the inside) in this post --- it seems like a spot-on observation.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#25

Post by ktRolster » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:38 PM UTC

Some programmers are dramatically better than others......some of those top programmers are jerks, some aren't (just like every segment of society).

I always called those top programmers rockstars, but apparently that's the wrong term.....what should they be called then?

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#26

Post by snassar » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:39 PM UTC

tenementfunster wrote: post #9

'Start with the assumption that harassment reports are true and investigate them thoroughly' Sorry, what? We have this whole ideal of "innocent until proven guilty" in America (and many other places) so you can kindly take this nonsense elsewhere.

In a court of law we should all be innocent until proven guilty. Outside of court if I behave like an asshole you have the right to not hang out with me or even suffer my presense. In fact, you even have the right to say: snassar is an asshole and I won't hang out on Hacker News if you tolerate him. It's up to the rest of Hacker News to decide if you are right or not.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#27

Post by Saturnaut » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:39 PM UTC

Don't sleep with people you work with. Don't drink if you can't control yourself or can't trust the people you are with. Don't do drugs if you can't control yourself or trust the people you are with. Problem solved!

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#28

Post by chris_7 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:40 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #21

It seems like they are redefining rock star in the "A rock star likes to be the center of attention." paragraph. I am getting a little sick of the trend[1] of redefining a word to mean something else. Given this, a genuine complement of calling someone a "rock star" should probably be met with a hostility. The line "A rock star appears in dozens of magazine profiles – and never, ever tells the journalist to talk to t…

It's somewhat true that lead singers and guitarists are lionized over drummers and bassists, but they're still doing relatively equal work (and in many cases the singer is also the writer).

There's also the sound/lights/crew/merch people, but they wouldn't have a reason to be there without the rock stars.

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#29

Post by jondubois » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:40 PM UTC

I'm really glad that someone is raising this issue. This 'rock star worship' culture is rampant in Open Source communities. What's worse is that many of these 'rock stars' don't do anything except blog and give talks at conferences - Their main goal is self-promotion. They don't give a shit about the actual project or the community.

You rarely hear about open source developers who focus on one project and produce amazing work over many years - These developers are too busy actually writing code and promoting the project to care about promoting themselves - Because they understand that their project is more important. A good open source developer sees themselves as a servant to the project, not the master.

I think a big problem in the tech industry in general is that there is too much focus on people - I'm sick of hearing investors say "We invest in people, not products" - I think this sends the wrong message and attracts the wrong people.

The product should always be more important than the people who built it - People who agree with this statement are the ones we should invest in because they're the ones who will actually create value for society (as opposed to merely capturing value which others have created).

Re: No more rock stars: how to stop abuse in tech communities

#30

Post by adiabatty » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 11:41 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #6

There should be no abuse - sexual or otherwise - in tech communities. Please call it out whenever you see it, in a polite but firm manner, and don't be afraid or intimidated by it. The vast majority of people will support you, and it's important to do so not only for your own protection but for others that might not be so willing or able to do the same. That said, something about the tone of this blog post is utterly…

There's a weak undercurrent of condescension in the post (I've seen worse from Model View Culture); you may be picking up on that.

I'm more interested in the un(der)examined assertion that, when it comes to accusations of sexual misconduct, the accused should have a presumption of guilt. Have there been any published arguments in favor of this?