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Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

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Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#251

Post by aninhumer »

saynsedit wrote: post #46
aninhumer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be done in a way that isn't cruel. Just take a little at a time, like we do with humans. It might not even be less efficient if the rate of blood production is fairly constant. (I don't know enough biology to speculate.)

It's cruel to take a human's blood without their consent, even if done painlessly.

I don't think it would be cruel for animals, because once you remove pain as a factor, the only suffering left for humans exists on a psychological level that I don't believe animals would experience.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#252

Post by aninhumer »

tkyjonathan wrote: post #37
aninhumer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be done in a way that isn't cruel. Just take a little at a time, like we do with humans. It might not even be less efficient if the rate of blood production is fairly constant. (I don't know enough biology to speculate.)

What for though? Cant you spice something in a particular way instead of bleeding an animal?

Maybe it's not necessary. My point is just that it would be possible.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#254

Post by Declanomous »

zem wrote: post #210
Declanomous wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheese and ice cream for the lactose intolerant are the same as normal cheese and ice cream, just with the lactose removed. Vegan cheese is completely different from lactose-free cheese, and is one of the worst things I have ever eaten. It does not retain a single attribute that makes normal cheese appealing, but still manages to smell like an old sock.

i have a vegan friend who swears by her brand of fake cheese; she's even made bruschetta with it and had it turn out okay. also i didn't know you got actual lactose-free ice cream; the lactose-intolerant people i've known usually ate coconut-based ice creams. i wonder if any of them had tried the lactose free stuff but found they were more used to the coconut.

Lactaid makes lactose-free versions of many dairy products that usually contain lactose, including ice cream. A special process isn't necessary for most cheeses since they naturally have very low levels of lactose due, since the lactose doesn't really get caught up in the coagulation.

I've never had coconut ice cream, but I've had soy ice cream on several occasions and I thought it wasn't bad. (Shout-out to Chocolate Shoppe Ice Cream, a Wisconsin manufacturer who does a great job of accommodating a wide variety of dietary restrictions)

I'm sure your friend finds her brand of fake cheese palatable, but I seriously doubt it bears any resemblance to real cheese. One of my close friends was a vegetarian because she couldn't give up cheese, until the point where her conscience overwhelmed her and she became a total vegan. She's been looking for a vegan cheese for the past seven or eight years, and I've unfortunately shared in the experience. I'm comfortable with the claim that right now, vegan cheese is not a replacement for real cheese.

The problem with vegan cheese is that vegan foods are generally only convincing substitutes in a specific domain. Ice cream works because ice cream is always frozen. Nobody complains if your vegan ice cream doesn't look like ice cream when melted or boiling. On the other hand, the same cheese can be melted, broiled, burnt, shredded, or some combination of the 4 depending on the application. Plus, it has to taste like cheese too.

In some sense, it's a bit like vegan bacon, which generally just tastes a bit smokey, and I've never found any that has the crispy texture that melts in the mouth like real bacon. Fake cheese just has a really ... off texture, and it's flavor is one-dimensional.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#255

Post by TheLarch »

bsder wrote: post #172
saynsedit wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does being "vegan on principle" mean here? What specific principles are you talking about? Some vegans do it because killing animals is morally bankrupt. Some vegans do it because raising livestock is unsustainable. There is not enough land on earth for everyone to have a meat diet. Some vegans do it because it's healthier. In general you can expect to ingest less toxins by eating lower on the food chain. I'm no…

> Some vegans do it because raising livestock is unsustainable. There is not enough land on earth for everyone to have a meat diet. I'm dubious about this statement. There is a lot of ocean, so seafood farming is probably quite capable of feeding humans meat. In addition, western societies currently overconsume meat. I suspect that if calorically balanced levels of consumption were observed, we probably have plenty o…

One pound of beef requires 1,847 gallons of water. Cattle produce a huge amount of methane. Ranchers use antibiotics profligately. Cows require a terrific amount of energy to grow, relative to plants, meaning lots of the corn we grow in the US goes to meat, which is far less energy efficient.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#256

Post by mucker »

No one has a problem with releasing hemoglobin producing yeast? No one? That sounds terrifying in that many _other_ industries rely on wild yeast.

This goes beyond the general case for GMO (where wild growth is generally crippled) and involves actively modifying the wider environment. This is a serious problem.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#257

Post by zem »

Declanomous wrote: post #254
zem wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have a vegan friend who swears by her brand of fake cheese; she's even made bruschetta with it and had it turn out okay. also i didn't know you got actual lactose-free ice cream; the lactose-intolerant people i've known usually ate coconut-based ice creams. i wonder if any of them had tried the lactose free stuff but found they were more used to the coconut.

Lactaid makes lactose-free versions of many dairy products that usually contain lactose, including ice cream. A special process isn't necessary for most cheeses since they naturally have very low levels of lactose due, since the lactose doesn't really get caught up in the coagulation. I've never had coconut ice cream, but I've had soy ice cream on several occasions and I thought it wasn't bad. (Shout-out to Chocolate…

i agree with you in general (and cheese is definitely not one of the things i'd want a substitute for myself), but note that one of the things that makes this fake mince product exciting is that they're explicitly trying to replicate the taste, the smell, the mouthfeel and the consistency of real beef mince. short of a breakthrough in vat-grown meat this seems like the most promising avenue yet.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#259

Post by prodigal_erik »

nicklo wrote: post #100
ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

Do you not find it unethical to serve your in-laws fake meat without informing them? Wouldn't you be upset if your in-laws served you seitan that was actually chicken? *edit: I bring this up because many people do not react well to meat substitutes. Gluten and soy intolerance affects many people and serving soy or gluten-based meat substitutes without prior informed consent can induce adverse reactions. I do believe…

There are people concerned about how soy might disrupt the endocrine system, and who don't broadcast this concern the way vegetarians do. Tricking them into eating it anyway is definitely unethical.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#260

Post by downandout »

ergothus wrote: post #188
downandout wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the larger issue is why do we stubbornly try to make one thing taste like another? In my opinion, it's because vegetarians know that their diet is an extreme departure from the norm, and anything they can do to feel more included in the mainstream, they will do. I have relatives that are vegetarians, and being vegetarian limits their social lives to some degree (I'm sure the impact is partially dependent on…

Your response is logical, but ultimately not true for me. As a vegetarian, I'm weird. As a picky vegetarian, I'm even weirder. That's fine, I'm used to weird, and I don't expect people to cater to my weirdness. For me, it's not about specific taste. When I went vegetarian, I lost the taste for red meat. Last time I had it (10+ years now) it was NASTY - I remembered it tasting good, but it doesn't meet (ha!) that memo…

>Last time I had it (10+ years now) it was NASTY - I remembered it tasting good, but it doesn't meet (ha!) that memory.

You seem very self-aware, which I view as a rare and positive trait. So here's a question that I am genuinely curious about: in light of the fact that you said you remembered meat tasting good prior to becoming a vegetarian, do you believe that it is unpalatable to you now because it actually tastes bad (i.e. your brain actually no longer likes the taste), or is it the thoughts that you associate with meat (those that drove you to be a vegetarian in the first place - perhaps that a cow was killed for it, or its impact on the environment)?

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