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Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

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Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#221

Post by kilotaras »

jonknee wrote: post #116
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are both subsidized, clearly - but since it takes 8lbs / 3.6kg of grain to produce 1lb / 0.45kg of beef [1], and the livestock then receive additional subsidies [2], the effect is magnified. 1: https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?artic... 2: https://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fips=00000&progcode=live...

If it takes more agriculture product to produce meat, the plain plant version should then be cheaper.

     cost of meat/plant version = real cost of producing - subsidies
Since subsidies in meat version are bigger, end result can be cheaper despite having higher "real" cost.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#222

Post by dragonwriter »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #36
ChuckMcM wrote: post #20

I would definitely like to try the products (another reason to make a trip back to Colorado). Lots of questions long term though. Is this the "Ethanol of Meat" ? Where the total cost/impact of producing the good overwhelms the benefits? Ground chuck roast is $7/lb and currently this stuff is more expensive than that. Can it be less expensive than that? Way less expensive? The fundamental question is does this move us…

Ground chuck roast is heavily subsidized; it would be surprising if any fake meat product could actually rival the energy and water costs needed to raise and process beef. So one solution would be to price both more fairly, in which case lots of consumers might be happier to choose the vegan option.

> Ground chuck roast is heavily subsidized; it would be surprising if any fake meat product could actually rival the energy and water costs needed to raise and process beef.

Substitutes have much lower growing costs in energy and water, but so far also much higher processing costs. Not too surprised that these might end up offsetting each other.

If you want plants to be efficient food sources, the best approach is not to try to make them imitate meat. Making them imitate meat is an inefficient use of plants.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#223

Post by fakemeatsubs »

Interesting topic. Not a vegetarian here, but when I'm eating outside the home I'll often act as one (no chicken/red meat. Fish/seafood acceptable but I'm not adventurous. Egg dairy okay). I went to a local chain restaurant that opened in a nearby shopping center that serves meat substitute. It's called lord of the fries (does this exist in other countries?). They dont specify on their website what substitute they use. My views (tried in burger form):

- Beef. This was terrible. Texture was best described as processed mush. Nothing like beef, even the processed type. The taste was worse. it was for some reason sweet. Didn't feel like I was eating beef at all. You'd fool no one with this. The appearance was convincing, but thats all the praise I had for it.

- Chicken: Actually pretty good. Friend was convinced it was real. It did taste pretty good, actually a little milder than 'real' chicken and without the sometimes unpleasant strong chicken-y taste (my opinion, im referring to the slight offputting taste that old/non-fresh chicken sometimes has). So i could definitely see the utility in this. It still didn't feel indinstinguishable, if you were paying attention I think you can tell the difference. Arbitrarily i'd give it a 90% there.

I havent seen the brands other posters discussed in my supermarket (Australia here). I wonder if meat substitutes are more of an American thing?

A point I wanted to bring up was safety. The experimental nature of these substitutes leaves me feeling a bit uneasy. The primary reason I never went back to the above discussed food outlet despite liking their fake-chicken was because I am unsure what is really inside it. Yes I know its vegetable based. My guess is soy protein? But how do I know that it's safe, for example too much soy milk has been shown to have increased estrogen like hormone and potentially a risk factor for cancers in females, and altered hormonal profile in males. Ideally I'd like to eat something that's been tested and through a strict approval process (treated like a pharmaceutical would get my confidence) to make sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot later. Yes I'm aware the verdict currently out on red meat isn't great either. But between chosing the devil I know vs the devil I don't know, i'd rather know what I'm getting myself into. Interested to hear what others think about this. I admit I'm not as knowledgeable with the regulatory processes for these things. I inherently dont trust companies on face value (they have too much conflict of interest, see tobacco companies or even meat companies for example). I've kept myself basically informed via documentaries, but so far it feels like we're all in an experimental phase.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#225

Post by mindslight »

hiou wrote: post #212
mindslight wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, selling anything to meat eaters as a "meat equivalent" is setting it up for rejection. I'd bet that if you took even real meat and told people it was "fake", a good portion of them would reject it as somehow weird. The "burger" is just a convenient form factor. Each kind is really its own thing, with its own taste and mouthfeel. It needs to be tried and appreciated as such, or disappointment is inev…

But does that change if the fake is $3 and the real one is $15? I think a lot of people in the front end of these startups trying to create almost identical to meat and dairy products are looking at that possibility in the not so far future as to why they will be successful. As opposed to something like a boca burger that is more intended to fit inside a hamburger bun as opposed to being exactly like meat. I say this…

At social situations (where pollination between meat eaters and vegetarians occurs), that would make the appeal even tougher. Eating meat then becomes a way of showing off financial status, even more than it already is ("we grilled up this real nice cut of blah blah").

I say this as a vegetarian, but I'm having a hard time seeing cost being a real advantage for imitation meat. It seems like more of a first world problem - if one cannot afford meat, they're better off spending resources on replacing its nutritional value rather than its taste.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#226

Post by ZenoArrow »

bradbeattie wrote: post #68
ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

I'm in the same camp as you. Vegetarian since 1989, vegan since 1999. I can certainly say that the quality of fake meats has drastically improved in the past 10 years (see https://gardein.com/ , http://fieldroast.com/ , and http://beyondmeat.com/ as examples), but the stigma surrounding them persists. Short anecdote: There's a donut shop in my town that sold vegan and regular donuts in adjacent but separate displays.…

From a marketing perspective, I'd suggest the way to shift perceptions would be to run taste test challenges similar to the ones Pepsi ran back in the day. If the burgers are as close to meat versions as they say then it could be good to have people who are reluctant to try it to at least give it a go. Even if they can still tell the difference, the difficulty in telling them apart may be enough to change the perception of the product.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#227

Post by pkaye »

wil421 wrote: post #92
wavefunction wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visit India and eat vegetarian food properly prepared by a culture that has refined vegetarian cuisine beyond "fake meat", I don't miss meat at all. Much of Western food is only expected to be an accompaniment to a meat dish, which is why you can't just cut meat out and eat the vegetable dishes you're used to when you're eating meat as well, imnsho.

Not a vegetarian but I do go out with many Indian colleagues who are vegetarian and have family members or friends who dont eat meat. I do agree with the assumption that western vegetarians tend to want meat replacements. The biggest difference for me was seeing how a lot of Indian cuisine is actually unhealthy. Most everything is fried in oil or has so much clarified butter its unhealthy. The Indian diet (at least t…

You are probably right on that though Indian restaurant food seems to be that way to cater to customer demand. At home the food tends to be more healthy but there is a tendency toward excess carbs.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#228

Post by wamatt »

Nice to see how HN sentiment appears to have shifted towards greater acceptance or even excitement towards meat alternatives.

For comparison here is the thread from 2012 on the Twitter founders investment in Beyond Meat

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4330247

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#229

Post by pkaye »

cthalupa wrote: post #176
mycodebreaks wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true for most of the restaurants serving different cuisines. Home-prepared Thai food is healthier than the food at Thai restaurants. Replace Thai with Chinese, Burmese, Vietnamese, Indian, and it would still hold true.

Having eaten a lot of home-prepared South Indian food, I'm not sure I really agree. Home cooked food has the ability to be healthier than restaurant prepared, but I don't know if there's enough data to really claim one way or the other - homecooked is not healthier just by virtue of being homecooked.

For south Indian food the problem is excess rice and starch.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#230

Post by douche »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #146
downandout wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Decent imitations of highly processed meat exist already I am a meat eater and I can tell you that, in my experience, this simply isn't the case. Your opinion is colored by the fact that you really, really, want it to be a decent imitation because you're a vegetarian. Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible. Unfortunately, the idea of fake me…

> Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible. I am a vegetarian, and have been for about 8 years. I agree that the taste isn't a duplicate, but inedible that's a stretcher? > Unfortunately, the idea of fake meat that people won't notice is, at least today, a vegetarian fantasy. And I never understood why. I like the taste of vegetables. Needing t…

> inedible that's a stretcher?

Technically, cardboard and shoe leather are edible, if you boil them enough, but you tend not to go out of your way to eat them, unless there's a bunch of people with pointy-murder-sticks outside and you've already gone through all the dogs, cats, rats, and insects.

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