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Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

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Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#151

Post by markbao »

munificent wrote: post #140
bradbeattie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the same camp as you. Vegetarian since 1989, vegan since 1999. I can certainly say that the quality of fake meats has drastically improved in the past 10 years (see https://gardein.com/ , http://fieldroast.com/ , and http://beyondmeat.com/ as examples), but the stigma surrounding them persists. Short anecdote: There's a donut shop in my town that sold vegan and regular donuts in adjacent but separate displays.…

I think the problem here is that "vegan" is used to describe two different things: 1. A product that has been changed to not use any animal products. 2. A product that already fits within those constraints. Products in the former group have a history of being noticeably worse than their non-vegan counterpart, so "vegan" carries the stigma of "tastes worse than it looks". That stigma then wafts over to products in the…

That's a great point. I wonder if there's an elegant/clean way to denote that something is vegan but not changed to be vegan. "Naturally fat-free" is good, and the sort of plant logo that some restaurants use at least avoid the word "vegan" which may help.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#152

Post by ergothus »

nicklo wrote: post #100
ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

Do you not find it unethical to serve your in-laws fake meat without informing them? Wouldn't you be upset if your in-laws served you seitan that was actually chicken? *edit: I bring this up because many people do not react well to meat substitutes. Gluten and soy intolerance affects many people and serving soy or gluten-based meat substitutes without prior informed consent can induce adverse reactions. I do believe…

I almost covered this case because I knew someone would (reasonably) ask, but didn't for length.

I checked everyone's dietary restrictions beforehand. I served fake meat without informing them at my wife's request, because she knew her father (who is stubborn southerner) and brother (who is mentally handicapped) would both refuse to like it immediately. (A visit to an all-vegetarian restaurant would later prove her correct).

In all other circumstances where I've served fake meat to others it's been very openly labeled and/or pointed out.

I'm inclined to agree with everything you've said, but Thanksgiving with the in-laws is a special moral situation, vegetarian or not :)

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#153

Post by zanny »

ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

> won't even try any of these, sight unseen

I don't get this sentiment. I'm not close to vegetarian, but I go out of my way to try to eat less meat and when I'm not at the discretion of others (eating out, eating over at a friends house, etc) I prioritize my favorite meat-free foods, but nobody should be saying "its not meat? No way, never gonna try it, I am a blood thirsty carnivore". Even if you're like me and don't have the time, effort, or circumstance to cut meat out entirely, you should still at least try alternatives when they are presented to you.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#154

Post by jachee »

pappyo wrote: post #87

Meat enthusiast here. There is no one who wants a viable meat alternative for meat eaters than me. The bleeding heart (pun intended) in me cares about the sustainability of meat and the sheer cost of ethical farming. Fact of the matter is though, I won't give up eating meat. I love it, so so much. And I have a leery eye towards meat substitutes. This product for example: - How well does this product replicate the Mai…

>are their lipids present spiking the flame, positively contributing to the cooking process?

They mention using coconut oil flecks to replace the beef's fat, so I imagine that'd contribute to the cooking process, "frying" it up a bit.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#155

Post by russdill »

ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

To be fair, if you give someone and tell them it's a chicken nugget, you are setting the bar pretty low. People have come to expect pretty much any quality of meat and even texture in a chicken nugget.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#156

Post by ChuckMcM »

firethief wrote: post #147
mod wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would this differ from an equivalent buffalo?

There are an order of magnitude more cattle than there have been equivalent buffalos?

Hmm, I was going to say "No way!" but looking around it seems like 60M buffalo back in the day [1] and at times 100M cows [2], certainly not "order of magnitude" but more cows that buffalo.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison#Range_and_popul...

[2] http://www.cattlenetwork.com/advice-and-tips/cowcalf-produce...

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#157

Post by ergothus »

adrusi wrote: post #118
nicklo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not find it unethical to serve your in-laws fake meat without informing them? Wouldn't you be upset if your in-laws served you seitan that was actually chicken? *edit: I bring this up because many people do not react well to meat substitutes. Gluten and soy intolerance affects many people and serving soy or gluten-based meat substitutes without prior informed consent can induce adverse reactions. I do believe…

I'm sure the parent would be upset if secretly served chicken, not because they would feel defrauded, but because they were tricked intol violating their ethical principles. Secretly serving non-vegetarians vegetarian food is, technically, fraud, but it's not disrespecting their morality. That fraud might be slightly immoral (I don't think it is, but it's a topic for debate), but it's easily offset by the potential f…

as the parent poster in question:

* I think it was absolutely unethical of me. But it's one of those unethical things you do with in-laws, and falls within "white lies" territory as long as am I'm not endangering anyone's health nor causing them to violate moral principles.

* It was done simply to serve food we'd all eat, it was not my goal nor intention to "convert" anyone. Personally, I don't try to convert people beyond example and offering my reasonings when socially appropriate.

* I would consider tricking me into eating meat as worse than tricking someone to eat more non-meat than they would. That doesn't make what I did less of a trick.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#158

Post by nicklo »

ergothus wrote: post #152
nicklo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not find it unethical to serve your in-laws fake meat without informing them? Wouldn't you be upset if your in-laws served you seitan that was actually chicken? *edit: I bring this up because many people do not react well to meat substitutes. Gluten and soy intolerance affects many people and serving soy or gluten-based meat substitutes without prior informed consent can induce adverse reactions. I do believe…

I almost covered this case because I knew someone would (reasonably) ask, but didn't for length. I checked everyone's dietary restrictions beforehand. I served fake meat without informing them at my wife's request, because she knew her father (who is stubborn southerner) and brother (who is mentally handicapped) would both refuse to like it immediately. (A visit to an all-vegetarian restaurant would later prove her c…

Thanks for clearing that bit up. Glad that dietary considerations were made :)

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#160

Post by jean_claude »

ergothus wrote: post #129
delecti wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same definition of "vegetarian" that I do Can you elaborate?

Sure. Usually it boils down to whether fish/seafood is considered vegetarian, but sometimes it also includes broth or animal byproducts. For the purposes of definition, I use the below, which appears to be the general consensus definitions in America, though I'm sure some will dispute this. Vegetarian: (also called ovo-lacto vegetarian) No meat (including fish/seafood). Eggs, dairy, and honey are okay. Byproducts tha…

>>A friend of mine from India once told me "if a mob would burn down your restaurant if you got caught mixing meat and vegetarian, you'd take it seriously too". I still don't if she was joking with me, and if so to what degree.

Yes, that is (unfortunately) a possible outcome, if not outright murder by an angry mob of people who take their religious and societal taboos too seriously[1].

[1] http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/ind...

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