Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat • Hacker News Board

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#141

Post by nxzero » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:20 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #134

ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

>Decent imitations of highly processed meat exist already I am a meat eater and I can tell you that, in my experience, this simply isn't the case. Your opinion is colored by the fact that you really, really, want it to be a decent imitation because you're a vegetarian. Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible. Unfortunately, the idea of fake me…

Just to be clear, you've done blind taste tests of all the products they mentioned within the recent past, right?

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#142

Post by delecti » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #129

delecti wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same definition of "vegetarian" that I do Can you elaborate?

Sure. Usually it boils down to whether fish/seafood is considered vegetarian, but sometimes it also includes broth or animal byproducts. For the purposes of definition, I use the below, which appears to be the general consensus definitions in America, though I'm sure some will dispute this. Vegetarian: (also called ovo-lacto vegetarian) No meat (including fish/seafood). Eggs, dairy, and honey are okay. Byproducts tha…

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It sounds like your definitions fit mine, so it's good to know that India would (at least from a dietary perspective) be a viable vacation destination.

And that's probably not just a thought experiment given the likelihood of eventually going there on business trips.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#143

Post by athenot » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #134

ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

>Decent imitations of highly processed meat exist already I am a meat eater and I can tell you that, in my experience, this simply isn't the case. Your opinion is colored by the fact that you really, really, want it to be a decent imitation because you're a vegetarian. Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible. Unfortunately, the idea of fake me…

I'm also an omnivore and have made the same observation.

I think the larger issue is why do we stubbornly try to make one thing taste like another? I may be a meat-eater but I can fill my heart's content at a number of Indian vegetarian places, to the point where I don't realize I didn't eat meat. The meal as a whole is fully satiating and nourishing.

In the same vein, I love tofu when it tastes like tofu. But when some try to make it ressemble meat, it simply becomes bad tofu. Beans are awesome and can be combined in so many ways. Bean burgers are just over-seasoned patties posing as meat.

Maybe it's my French background showing but I prefer minimal processing, or processing that brings out the natural flavors of the ingredient, not trying to hide them.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#144

Post by logicallee » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

interesting, but

>chef Traci Des Jardins served the Impossible Burger (pictured uncooked) with vegan mayo, Dijon mustard, mashed avocado, caramelized onions, chopped cornichon, tomato and lettuce on a pretzel bun.

I think I'd probably enjoy a single postage stamp served in the above configuration (in place of the patty). Obviously my review of the postage stamp would be heavily influenced by these trimmings.

Given the rest of the article, they should have just browned it and served it on a $0.50 store-bought hamburger bun http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/hamburger-buns with some lettuce and ketchup.

Or is it not actually up to the task? The rest of the article fawns that it is, but they don't put their hamburger where the reviewer's mouth is. They put mashed avocado, carmelized onion, and chopped cornichon on a pretzel bun there.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#145

Post by pyre » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #129

delecti wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same definition of "vegetarian" that I do Can you elaborate?

Sure. Usually it boils down to whether fish/seafood is considered vegetarian, but sometimes it also includes broth or animal byproducts. For the purposes of definition, I use the below, which appears to be the general consensus definitions in America, though I'm sure some will dispute this. Vegetarian: (also called ovo-lacto vegetarian) No meat (including fish/seafood). Eggs, dairy, and honey are okay. Byproducts tha…

> My Japanese friends tell me there's no point in me trying to eat there. The only option that doesn't involve seafood is "monk training food", which is...not intended to be tasty.

I'm vegan an eat Japanese food all of the time. It really just depends on the restaurant. Examples:

- Tempura batter can be vegan if they don't add eggs to it. Some restaurants do, and some don't.

- Sushi rice is basically sugar, salt and rice vinegar seasoning.

- Miso soup is fine as long as you confirm they don't add "bonito" (aka fish flakes).

- Many of the vegetarian rolls are fine.

The only thing that you might worry about is if you are super-strict about cross-contamination. But if that's the case you really can't eat out at most restaurants.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#146

Post by jimktrains2 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:23 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #134

ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

>Decent imitations of highly processed meat exist already I am a meat eater and I can tell you that, in my experience, this simply isn't the case. Your opinion is colored by the fact that you really, really, want it to be a decent imitation because you're a vegetarian. Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible. Unfortunately, the idea of fake me…

> Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible.

I am a vegetarian, and have been for about 8 years. I agree that the taste isn't a duplicate, but inedible that's a stretcher?

> Unfortunately, the idea of fake meat that people won't notice is, at least today, a vegetarian fantasy.

And I never understood why. I like the taste of vegetables. Needing things that duplicate meat in taste and texture feels unnecessary and almost ... not quite, I can't find the right word ... hypocritical -- as if humans need that flavor?

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#147

Post by firethief » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:23 PM UTC

mod wrote: post #88

davedx wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about use of land resources though, it's about greenhouse gases (methane) generated by cattle. Beef is just about the worst thing you can eat with regards to climate change.

How would this differ from an equivalent buffalo?

There are an order of magnitude more cattle than there have been equivalent buffalos?

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#148

Post by ncknt » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

buckbova wrote: post #4

> "When I tried a mini burger slathered in vegan mayo, mashed avocado, caramelized onions and Dijon prepared by San Francisco chef Traci Des Jardin at the company's headquarters in Redwood City, I was floored." Honestly a good chef can make cardboard taste good. But as a daily meat eater I'd love a good ground beef alternative.

FWIW I tried an Impossible Food burger and was also impressed. I cooked it without condiments and found it a little nutty but definitely in the same category as meat.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#149

Post by cheetos » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:25 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #134

ergothus wrote: post #26

I've been a vegetarian for the last decade and change, and I simultaneously think that finding a cheaper, appealing alternative to meat is both a fantastic opportunity for the world and a really difficult thing. I used to love meat when I was a meat-eater, and I'm a fairly picky eater that dislikes many vegetable options. (Green peppers are nasty and food-destroying in my opinion, which immediately removes over half…

>Decent imitations of highly processed meat exist already I am a meat eater and I can tell you that, in my experience, this simply isn't the case. Your opinion is colored by the fact that you really, really, want it to be a decent imitation because you're a vegetarian. Every imitation meat product I have ever tasted has been immediately recognizable as such, and was almost inedible. Unfortunately, the idea of fake me…

Why so dismissive? Your opinion is also colored by your experience and preferences, and is no more valid than his.

Also, there is no requirement that meat substitutes be indistinguishable from meat to be considered edible.

Re: Bloody Plant Burger Smells, Tastes and Sizzles Like Meat

#150

Post by ergothus » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 7:25 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #96

Believe it or not, some of us don't want to be vegans. I quite enjoy the taste of meat. I harvest my own by ethically hunting when I have the time. No I do not want a vegan substitute.

I'm not really sure what you're reacting to. NOTHING in my message said that everyone wanted to be vegan, nor did I imply that everyone SHOULD.

So I totally believe you. As I said, I spent a long time as a meat eater and enjoyed the taste/texture, I haven't gone full vegan despite my ethical beliefs, and I spend money on luxuries while people suffer. I'm in no place to judge other people for their choices.

I won't comment on "ethically hunting" except to say that's ethical relative to some options, not objectively ethical, but that's a discussion for later.

As for not wanting a substitute - that's fine. But there are a few groups that do:

* Those of us that don't want to kill things, but still like the taste/texture (as you can see from other comments, being vegetarian doesn't mean you hated meat, nor does it mean you loved it and miss it. All kinds exist.).

* Those that want cheaper, healthier food. As an example, the US produces a vast amount of corn, and in fact covers 35% of the global corn demand...and corn for human consumption is a tiny, tiny sliver of that corn usage. Most goes to feed animals. A lot of calories go into feeding those animals, so that they can be killed and eaten. If we convert some portion of that process into feeding people instead of animals, we've just made food (calories) cheaper. (And currently, the cheapest food is often empty calorie - ironically corn syrup factors in to that). Presumably we'd want that food to be considered tasty to people, be that by simply making vegetables cheaper, or making meat alternatives tastier.

* Those that want to reduce the impact on the world by domesticated animals raised for food. Methane is one output, but lots of sewage is another, just as an example. (Obligatory: https://xkcd.com/1338/ )

If the above doesn't cover 100% of people, that's hardly a surprise. But the above is certainly greater than 0%. If you can point out what part of my message offended you, I'll see what I can do to correct it.