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Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#51

Post by jshevek »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #4
dublinben wrote: post #3

I don't think it's necessarily fair to call this program "philanthropic." It's teaching kids how to use proprietary and commercial software, like iMovie, iBooks, and Tynker, when completely free alternatives exist like Blender and Scratch. This is essentially building a new generation of future Apple customers.

It's still better than nothing. If Uncle Ben's rice donates its branded rice to victims of a natural disaster - provided the containers say "Uncle Ben's Rice" - would you refuse it for a generic?

Straw man - you misrepresent the argument. Uncle Ben's is merely a brand. After you've gotten used to one brand of rice, there is truly zero switching cost to switch to another brand.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#53

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

ohstopitu wrote: post #33
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was an intern at Apple I asked Tim what the hardest part was about filling in Steve's shoes and he said: "Steve was my friend, and I don't believe a friend could ever replace a friend, so I chose to run Apple like Tim." I've always respected that answer.

what did you intern as, at Apple?

Can't talk about it ;)

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#54

Post by jshevek »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #29
dublinben wrote: post #3

I don't think it's necessarily fair to call this program "philanthropic." It's teaching kids how to use proprietary and commercial software, like iMovie, iBooks, and Tynker, when completely free alternatives exist like Blender and Scratch. This is essentially building a new generation of future Apple customers.

I'm not sure I see the relevance of the program's proprietariness vs. its philanthropic value

I don't see the issue as being fundamentally about whether or not it is proprietary per se, but Apple's choice of technology makes it clear that Apple's actions are self interested, and not philanthropic.

Philanthropic means "seeking to promote the welfare of others, especially by donating money to good causes; generous and benevolent".

It does not mean "selfish action which happens to also benefit others"

There are several ways apple could have been less obviously self interested, not purely by choosing FLOSS.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#55

Post by ralfd »

jshevek wrote: post #45
plg wrote: post #32

I took my kid to one of these last year. It was fairly useless. They drag around little action-icons into a list to make an animated character move around and do stuff. My 11-year-old was bored stiff. Edit: PS the Apple Store employee who ran this thing (he was a very nice guy) admitted he had zero coding experience himself

Yes, given the level of competence of the staff at Apple stores, it seems unlikely there could be a worthwhile coding camp at that venue. Apple would need to bring in some much higher caliber people.

Urgh, it is basics of coding course for 8 year olds. What do people expect? Albert Einstein giving lessons?

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#56

Post by rsfinn »

sangnoir wrote: post #47

I find this program ironic since Apple locks down iDevices pretty hard - their App Store rules prohibit coding[1] on iPhones & iPads. If anyone were to attempt to make an interpreter/port Scratch or Python to iOS, the app would not be approved. 1. §3.3.2 An Application may not download or install executable code. Interpreted code may only be used in an Application if all scripts, code and interpreters are packaged in…

Perhaps you haven't heard about Pythonista, which is a full Python programming environment available on the App Store. Now there's also Playgrounds, which is a Swift programming environment that comes with the iOS 10 beta and runs on the iPad (you can even invoke iOS frameworks, apparently) — yes, this is from Apple itself, and yes, they're bending their own rules. But your original statement is not strictly true.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#57

Post by dublinben »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #11
dublinben wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were a relief agency, and those were the terms of their donation, I would refuse it. If they aren't willing to donate without making it a marketing opportunity, it's not really charity/philanthropy.

Wow. You would rather people starve than look at a logo? Wow.

No, they would rather let people starve than not look at their logo.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#58

Post by up_and_up »

dublinben wrote: post #3

I don't think it's necessarily fair to call this program "philanthropic." It's teaching kids how to use proprietary and commercial software, like iMovie, iBooks, and Tynker, when completely free alternatives exist like Blender and Scratch. This is essentially building a new generation of future Apple customers.

Honestly it seems like (nearly) everything they do appears narcissistic and self-serving.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#59

Post by jshevek »

sxg wrote: post #27
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the invention of the GUI killed the dream of mainstream programming. If computers had to be interacted with in ways that resembled programming - like a UNIX prompt - then people would be more used to the way computers actually work, with functions and parameters instead of icons and settings menus. I really hope that raspberry PI gets more mainstream appeal as time goes on. I fear the separation between coder…

Without a GUI, mainstream computing probably wouldn't even exist let alone mainstream programming.

> Without a GUI, mainstream computing probably wouldn't even exist let alone mainstream programming.

As a child growing up, learning to function in society by speaking, reading, writing, and generally understanding English was a much harder task for me than learning to program in BASIC. BASIC is simple, predictable, logical and downright easy compared to English.

We take learning to read and write for granted, but its a messy, difficult, and often illogical affair. We have such high literacy rates because we start kids on it so young, and because its everywhere.

Its easy to imagine a version of our world in which children learn to interact with computers without GUIs, if CLIs were the norm. Children would learn them faster than adults.

Consider those children for whom learning a CLI was prerequisite to playing video games. All of those kids who I knew quickly memorized the requisite commands.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#60

Post by terrywilcox »

danso wrote: post #41
stormbrew wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on why you thought the OSX -> macOS change would lead to anything in particular like that? I don't really understand how.

Sorry, I don't have much reasoning on the specifics of OSX to macOS as they've been recently revealed, just the general skepticism that one operating system could achieve the best of both systems...in the same way that Windows 8.1, in my limited usage, was a fairly compromised experience. But I'm saying that as someone who can't imagine how skilled engineering could satisfactory thread the needle...and I'm giving sho…

They've renamed OS X to macOS. That's it.

Always read past the headline before getting upset.

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