Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#31

Post by logiclion » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:31 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #17

danso wrote: post #14

Ironically, I sometimes fear Apple would be the harbinger of programming's death, what with how much can be done via consumer-friendly app and touch-screens. It didn't help hearing about OSX becoming macOS, which would be well in line with a dystopian future in which the only people who need to know about plaintext and file systems are the full-time Apple programmers. But this sounds like a great initiative...and als…

I think the invention of the GUI killed the dream of mainstream programming. If computers had to be interacted with in ways that resembled programming - like a UNIX prompt - then people would be more used to the way computers actually work, with functions and parameters instead of icons and settings menus. I really hope that raspberry PI gets more mainstream appeal as time goes on. I fear the separation between coder…

Could you elaborate on why the GUI killed the possibility of mainstream programming? I'm not exactly sure if the concept of what programming is (in an abstract sense) should be bound to the idea of a CLI.

In my opinion the use of a GUI vs CLI is more of a preference and doesn't explicitly assume the user is ignorant.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#32

Post by plg » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:31 PM UTC

I took my kid to one of these last year. It was fairly useless. They drag around little action-icons into a list to make an animated character move around and do stuff. My 11-year-old was bored stiff.

Edit: PS the Apple Store employee who ran this thing (he was a very nice guy) admitted he had zero coding experience himself

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#33

Post by ohstopitu » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:36 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #7

s3r3nity wrote: post #2

It seems like a lot of folks don't give Tim Cook enough credit in the post-Steve Jobs world for a lot of the philanthropic work Apple has done for education (as well as for the LGBTQ community.) Kudos to them for this initiative - and I'll be excited if this expands to adults at some point.

When I was an intern at Apple I asked Tim what the hardest part was about filling in Steve's shoes and he said: "Steve was my friend, and I don't believe a friend could ever replace a friend, so I chose to run Apple like Tim." I've always respected that answer.

what did you intern as, at Apple?

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#34

Post by s_dev » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:37 PM UTC

People often suggest that we should be teaching programming in primary/elementary school to kids.

I'm skeptical that that would encourage kids to code. This opinion is particularly espoused by politicians who can't code but want to be seen as technically progressive.

I think part of loving programming is discovering it on your own and seeking it out. Events/Sessions like this and CoderDojo that we have here in Ireland are more effective at evangelising kids to code because it endows a greater sense of autonomy to the individual that what you get in a classroom and I think thats a more conducive environment to encourage coding.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#35

Post by simonbw » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:38 PM UTC

Michie wrote: post #24

I like Apple's initiative but why use a third party application instead of their Swift Playground? It seems more appropriate and based on what's shown on WWDC, it's not that hard to learn. This is a possible sign that Tynker can be bought by Apple soon to be integrated with Swift Playground.

The answer given by the article:

However, that app [Swift Playground] is aimed at slightly older children – those aged 12 and up.

But I have no idea if that's the real reason.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#36

Post by jeffwass » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #34

People often suggest that we should be teaching programming in primary/elementary school to kids. I'm skeptical that that would encourage kids to code. This opinion is particularly espoused by politicians who can't code but want to be seen as technically progressive. I think part of loving programming is discovering it on your own and seeking it out. Events/Sessions like this and CoderDojo that we have here in Irelan…

I've long felt that the utility of learning to code was less about vocational training but more about analytical thinking.

Ie, figuring out how to solve problems by analysing a task and breaking it into small and discrete bite-size pieces that can be understood by a computer's rule set.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#37

Post by redial » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #17

danso wrote: post #14

Ironically, I sometimes fear Apple would be the harbinger of programming's death, what with how much can be done via consumer-friendly app and touch-screens. It didn't help hearing about OSX becoming macOS, which would be well in line with a dystopian future in which the only people who need to know about plaintext and file systems are the full-time Apple programmers. But this sounds like a great initiative...and als…

I think the invention of the GUI killed the dream of mainstream programming. If computers had to be interacted with in ways that resembled programming - like a UNIX prompt - then people would be more used to the way computers actually work, with functions and parameters instead of icons and settings menus. I really hope that raspberry PI gets more mainstream appeal as time goes on. I fear the separation between coder…

> I fear the separation between coders and users is creating parallel worlds of echo-chamber wizards and ignorant commoners.

Isn't that how a society works? The vast number of diverse human activities are only possible because of the echo-camber, of people who specialise in one area while remaining ignorant in almost all the others.

Also computing, and programming, is much much more than a unix prompt.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#38

Post by Grue3 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:47 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #4

dublinben wrote: post #3

I don't think it's necessarily fair to call this program "philanthropic." It's teaching kids how to use proprietary and commercial software, like iMovie, iBooks, and Tynker, when completely free alternatives exist like Blender and Scratch. This is essentially building a new generation of future Apple customers.

It's still better than nothing. If Uncle Ben's rice donates its branded rice to victims of a natural disaster - provided the containers say "Uncle Ben's Rice" - would you refuse it for a generic?

This is more akin to a church providing help to victims of a natural disaster... provided you agree to convert to its religion first. Uncle Ben's Rice is not an ecosystem.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#39

Post by dominotw » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:48 PM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #34

People often suggest that we should be teaching programming in primary/elementary school to kids. I'm skeptical that that would encourage kids to code. This opinion is particularly espoused by politicians who can't code but want to be seen as technically progressive. I think part of loving programming is discovering it on your own and seeking it out. Events/Sessions like this and CoderDojo that we have here in Irelan…

>I think part of loving programming is discovering it on your own and seeking it out.

Agreed. Schools kill joys of learning. I hated history in school, but now I am big ancient history enthusiast. Most of my friends associate history with boring stuff taught to kids.

Programming should be discovered by kids and adults on their own

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#40

Post by aphextron » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 5:48 PM UTC

plg wrote: post #32

I took my kid to one of these last year. It was fairly useless. They drag around little action-icons into a list to make an animated character move around and do stuff. My 11-year-old was bored stiff. Edit: PS the Apple Store employee who ran this thing (he was a very nice guy) admitted he had zero coding experience himself

Sounds about what I expected. If there's anything kids hate, it's being patronized.