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“PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

seafile.de

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Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#201

Post by ams6110 »

vatotemking wrote: post #138
benevol wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read during the last few years about the endless horror stories businesses have endured with PayPal, I honestly don't understand why anyone would still use PayPal when there clearly are alternatives (be that US companies like Stripe or EU companies like Paymill).

For me part of the reason is that Paypal is available in more countries than Stripe. For example, here I can withdraw money from PayPal to my local bank account. I dont think its possible with Stripe.

Last time I used Stripe it was directly connected to a bank account. They would sit on funds for a couple of days I guess this was to allow the transaction to clear whatever batch cycles happen behind the scenes (debits cards were typically faster than credit charges) but the deposits came directly into the account.

Has that changed?

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#202

Post by joergsauer »

thirdsun wrote: post #157
mrweasel wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who sell stuff to Germans, could you please get a credit card? The only reason why we need to deal with PayPal is our German customer, 50% or more of our transactions in Germany is PayPal. It's a shitty company, with a shitty product.

Well, over here (in Germany) everyone gets a bank-issued debit card while a credit card usually comes with additional fees (I think it's 20-30€/year in my case, not sure right now). While it's not much, and I absolutely need a credit card for international purchases, a lot of fellow germans simply don't see the benefit when they could as well use the free debit card their bank gave them. And online their Paypal accou…

I live in Germany, and two of my credit cards have a monthly fee of EUR 0.00. One of them even has zero fees for foreign currency transactions and ATM withdrawals, which is why I got that particular one. There are good cards available in Germany if you look around.

Edit: EUR 0.00 annual fee, of course.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#203

Post by gpm »

Arnt wrote: post #180
Canada wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree that Seafile should be under any obligation to do that. If customers want to share files, let them. Storage services shouldn't ever look at what the files contain or their metadata. edit: looks like paypal openly states it won't process for file sharing services who don't monitor content. I guess most services that don't have a high dispute rate...

Last year I saw a customer (not at Seafile) who accessed our (paid) service from 20 different countries on the same day. Do you think that customer travelled to all those countries on that day? Do you think we were wrong to look for such globetrotting customers? Do you think we were wrong, or Seafile would be wrong, to look for customers who share their account with their hundred best friends?

It could be a single customer, Tor, proxies, etc exist. Further analysis of usage patterns could rule this out (with very high probability) though.

As for 'were you wrong', no, not if you ruled out the above. That doesn't make it something that you should have to do though.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#204

Post by ams6110 »

ominous wrote: post #47
MichaelBurge wrote: post #11

File sharing services are listed as requiring pre-approval, so Seafile should've sent them an email before accepting it as payment: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full They're well within their rights to decline your business. If a bank told the government, "We have no absolutely no idea what our customers are doing with their money or who they're sending it to. Maybe they're sending it to ter…

> They're well within their rights to decline your business. They are. Should we condone it? > "Maybe they're sending it to terrorists or drug lords, maybe they're not; it's none of our business and we respect their privacy" Isn't this similar to the idea of banning web browsers, as they render HTML which, as we all know, can be used to write text ( plaintext! ) inciting terrorism? And it sometimes is. Are you using…

Should we condone it

That's a business decision like any other. There are other ways to accept payments if you don't like the terms under which they sell their service.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#205

Post by 794CD01 »

mcherm wrote: post #172
cynicalkane wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, at least, AML regulations are whatever the regulators say they are.

I call BS on that. It is true that banks will go a long way to try to satisfy banking regulators. But unless you have some evidence I am simply unwilling to believe that banking regulators can make up any restrictions they like without regard for the actual requirements of federal law.

Not only is that true, it's usually not even the regulators that are making up the final actionable items. Businesses hire independent auditors who need to make sure their clients are well clear of what the regulators would be concerned with, and so push them to go even farther. And of course, once you have passed one audit, the next year's audit will be even more strict, even if the regulations themselves have not changed. The auditors do need to justify their own employment, after all.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#206

Post by ckastner »

boldfield wrote: post #175
cm2187 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the world of financial regulations! You may have not realised but banks and any financial institutions have been deputised by the regulators to be the financial police. They need to ensure that none of their client use financial services to commit crimes or launder the proceeds of a crime, under the penalty of heavy (up to multi billions) fines. Particularly in the US. I am pretty sure this is what is forc…

I worked for a financial services related startup for a while and was involved in implementing KYC/AML protections and AFAIK there isn't any relation between this and those laws. KYC is simply identifying your customers (nothing related to what they are doing) e.g. drivers license info, home address, etc. AML has to do with financial instruments passing through a business' account from customer (a) to customer (b) (i…

KYC is simply identifying your customers

That's the minimum, but it's certainly not all there is to it.

Know Your Customer really means know your customer.

As one of many practical examples, when dealing with a legal entity such a trust, merely identifying its officers is insufficient -- you must also identify the beneficial owner (BO). Effectively, this means that you have to look through all possible shell companies until you arrive at a natural person.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#208

Post by ams6110 »

rmc wrote: post #16
RachelF wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder. It is a bit worrying that DropBox accepts PayPal.

Dropbox is a US based company, is not bound by EU data protection law, the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU (basically the EU's Bill of Rights), and additionally the US Constitutional ban on warrentless searches does not apply to EU citizens in EU.

Constitutional rights don't apply to Dropbox at all. They are a private entity. If they want to inspect your data, they can, especially if they have disclosed this in their terms of service. That's why I would never put anything sensitive (tax returns, etc.) on dropbox without encrypting in locally first.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#209

Post by 794CD01 »

infodroid wrote: post #207

To a corporate lawyer, every file sync and team collaboration solution looks no different from Megaupload.

To a user, too. That's why every file sharing service eventually gets taken over by the same people with the same problems.

Re: “PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as customers’ files”

#210

Post by JulienSchmidt »

ccozan wrote: post #91
lars_francke wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you now also have paydirekt.de which is a direct competitor to PayPal initiated by most major banks in Germany.

I am in Germany, didn't know about the paydirect.de. Has anyone tested them?

I use it whenever it is available. The process is seamless and as far as I remember I was redirected to my bank, to enter my data there. I never had to give my bank data to a 3rd party.

PS: The proper domain is paydirekt.de

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