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F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

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Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#11

Post by tehrei »

mrweasel wrote: post #8
x5n1 wrote: post #3

So what. It's not as if the US government is fighting anyone with any real air capability. You could use Vietnam aircraft and still win against the threat.

The Danish government have the same issue. The plan is to buy 27 F-35s, but that's not really enough for anything. They are suppose to replace 60 F-16s. Even if the F-35 is as good as it's claimed, and the Russians are coming, I think you'd be better of with twice the number of some less advanced planes.

At this point it's fair to say that anyone waiting on F-35 would have been better served by just ordering more Warthogs.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#12

Post by jacquesm »

mrweasel wrote: post #8
x5n1 wrote: post #3

So what. It's not as if the US government is fighting anyone with any real air capability. You could use Vietnam aircraft and still win against the threat.

The Danish government have the same issue. The plan is to buy 27 F-35s, but that's not really enough for anything. They are suppose to replace 60 F-16s. Even if the F-35 is as good as it's claimed, and the Russians are coming, I think you'd be better of with twice the number of some less advanced planes.

Missiles and drones are a lot cheaper than piloted planes, and easier to replace.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#13

Post by spatulan »

x5n1 wrote: post #3

So what. It's not as if the US government is fighting anyone with any real air capability. You could use Vietnam aircraft and still win against the threat.

Because nations tend to avoid starting wars they'll obviously lose.

If the US military falls behind technologically, other nations might start thinking defeat isn't so obvious any more.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#14

Post by duncan_bayne »

tehrei wrote: post #11
mrweasel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Danish government have the same issue. The plan is to buy 27 F-35s, but that's not really enough for anything. They are suppose to replace 60 F-16s. Even if the F-35 is as good as it's claimed, and the Russians are coming, I think you'd be better of with twice the number of some less advanced planes.

At this point it's fair to say that anyone waiting on F-35 would have been better served by just ordering more Warthogs.

Serious question: at what point in the entire F-35 development process was that _not_ true?

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#15

Post by jacquesm »

tomjen3 wrote: post #6
x5n1 wrote: post #3

So what. It's not as if the US government is fighting anyone with any real air capability. You could use Vietnam aircraft and still win against the threat.

Right, but the better planes are needed for deterrent.

No, they are for government pork.

A cheap plane would not nearly be as effective.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#16

Post by Laforet »

WalterBright wrote: post #7
Gibbon1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem currently (Iraq and Syria) is the Air Force is being only able to run limited sorties against a large number of small targets like pickup trucks with 20mm cannons on the back.

The way to hit an unsophisticated target like that is come at them out of the sun. They won't see or hear you coming.

The problems is that the F-35's ground attack capacity is better suited to destory large hardened targets such as latest MBTs fielded by Russia and China, rather than the small, numerous and arguably unsophisticated technicals or the proverbial dude running with an RPG. It will cost several times more and does not work as well.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#17

Post by 13of40 »

WalterBright wrote: post #7
Gibbon1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem currently (Iraq and Syria) is the Air Force is being only able to run limited sorties against a large number of small targets like pickup trucks with 20mm cannons on the back.

The way to hit an unsophisticated target like that is come at them out of the sun. They won't see or hear you coming.

While you're doing that, everyone else (who aren't, incidentally, in line with you and the sun) should be firing full auto at a point in front of your aircraft so you fly through a cloud of bullets.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#18

Post by NamTaf »

spatulan wrote: post #13
x5n1 wrote: post #3

So what. It's not as if the US government is fighting anyone with any real air capability. You could use Vietnam aircraft and still win against the threat.

Because nations tend to avoid starting wars they'll obviously lose. If the US military falls behind technologically, other nations might start thinking defeat isn't so obvious any more.

South America isn't invading you any time soon and every other mob has a whopping great pile of water to cross and not much in the way of an active carrier fleet to support it, or they're already your allies.

The only one that falls into your threat category is Russia. Is Russia really about to invade the US at the first sign of air supremacy weakness? You still have enough nukes to cause literal worldwide armageddon 20 times over.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#19

Post by RachelF »

mrweasel wrote: post #8
x5n1 wrote: post #3

So what. It's not as if the US government is fighting anyone with any real air capability. You could use Vietnam aircraft and still win against the threat.

The Danish government have the same issue. The plan is to buy 27 F-35s, but that's not really enough for anything. They are suppose to replace 60 F-16s. Even if the F-35 is as good as it's claimed, and the Russians are coming, I think you'd be better of with twice the number of some less advanced planes.

Indeed, they are now so expensive that they'll have to be really good. Is one F-35 better than five Su-27 which cost about the same.

To quote Stalin, “Quantity has a Quality All Its Own"

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#20

Post by Marazan »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #14
tehrei wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point it's fair to say that anyone waiting on F-35 would have been better served by just ordering more Warthogs.

Serious question: at what point in the entire F-35 development process was that _not_ true?

Right at the start the F35 programme looked like the sensible choice and the F22 was perceived as a ludicrous expensive pointless prestige project.

Then the F35 got Christmas treed to death.

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