Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay • Hacker News Board

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#211

Post by srtjstjsj » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:20 AM UTC

kingnothing wrote: post #155

jliptzin wrote: post #127

This happened to me about 5 years ago on ebay when selling an iPhone. I was an eBay member since 1999, 100% positive feedback, occasional seller (about once a month). I sold a perfectly fine iPhone, buyer with no feedback history complains to eBay he never received the phone despite tracking showing it was delivered. He also leaves me negative feedback (in broken English). eBay sided with the buyer immediately and at…

When World of Warcraft was released, I had the same thing happen to me. It was a hot item and my local retailer happened to have it on the shelves, so I bought 10 extra copies and sold the CD keys on ebay for about 3x retail pricing. Almost half of the keys I sold were allegedly bought from Paypal customers who "had their accounts hacked", so ebay withdrew the money from my account and refunded it to the buyers leavi…

bought for 10, sold for 30, lost 12, profit 8. So, fuck eBay for only enabling you get 8 profit instead of 0?

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#212

Post by maldeh » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:21 AM UTC

iamdave wrote: post #161

incongruity wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an opportunity for Amazon, IMHO. This sort of thing is what insurance is for - it's all about risk pooling so you can survive the big loss even if you're a small-scale seller. Amazon could easily add an insurance policy option for sellers with a few minimal requirements for documenting the sale/shipping - Amazon collects a small fee, encourages better habits among small sellers and it all works.

I've never sold on Amazon, so pardon the ignorance: does Amazon have some sort of 'escrow' service to hedge this risk for parties making transactions?

Not quite escrow, but there's 'Fulfillment By Amazon', which takes care of distribution and shipping for you (albeit for additional fulfillment fees), and can be safer for both the buyer and seller since goods pass through inventory checks at a warehouse. (Disclaimer: work with Fulfillment By Amazon)

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#213

Post by srtjstjsj » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:22 AM UTC

corin_ wrote: post #172

jliptzin wrote: post #127

This happened to me about 5 years ago on ebay when selling an iPhone. I was an eBay member since 1999, 100% positive feedback, occasional seller (about once a month). I sold a perfectly fine iPhone, buyer with no feedback history complains to eBay he never received the phone despite tracking showing it was delivered. He also leaves me negative feedback (in broken English). eBay sided with the buyer immediately and at…

I have no love for eBay or Paypal, but what should they do in these sorts of situation? If buyer claims they send the product and seller claims they didn't, is there any good way of handling the dispute that doesn't have the potential for screwing over whichever party is innocent? Of course, they could have decided in your favour based on better feedback history, but that would have solved the problem for you, not al…

People are so entitled. They want free guaranteed secure transactions without putting any effort into security. It's "Fuck Ebay" every time something goes wrong, and entitled complacency every time they get an awesome deal.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#214

Post by srtjstjsj » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:23 AM UTC

morganvachon wrote: post #189

windlep wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which proves you didn't already open it, swap in a brick, and reseal it to make it look unopened... how?

Yep, I think the only defense against someone criticizing an unboxing video is to sit near your front door on the expected delivery day, recording device in hand and finger on the button, and as soon as you see/hear the delivery driver pulling up, start recording and don't stop until the device is unboxed. The sheer absurdity of anyone actually doing that is what works in the favor of scammers on both sides (buyers a…

> The sheer absurdity of anyone actually doing that is what works in the favor of scammers on both sides (buyers and sellers).

Request shipping to post office, open package in post office while filling with smartphone. If you don't want to pay for a trusted retailed, you have to put in some work yourself.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#215

Post by DiabloD3 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:23 AM UTC

seanp2k2 wrote: post #116

Pyxl101 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if there was an EBay like action site where you couldn't just sign up, and rather someone had to "vouch" for you? When fraud starts happening, you can see who vouched them in and shut down the network. If people start selling vouches online, then you suspend both them and the person who had the bad judgment to vouch them in originally. (maybe they can keep using the site, but not vouch, etc.) The site would also…

FYI, this is exactly how the better torrent sites work.

Yeah, I was about to say "so, what.cd for auctions?" I'd use it.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#216

Post by srtjstjsj » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:25 AM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #207

jfoster wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do if you discover something wrong with the item post-transaction?

Small claims court seems nicely suited.

I'm not going risk wasting a day of my life for $100 or get my life more entwined with an avowed criminal.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#217

Post by leakybit » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:33 AM UTC

laksjd wrote: post #4

I'm going to guess this only works with sellers that aren't fulfilled by Amazon? It's an annoyingly effective scam: How can sellers protect themselves?

Actually, these type of scams, which are called refund scams, are extremely widespread with FBA sellers and Amazon directly just by how easy it is to pull off. I mean the clay bar is overkill. If you dealing with amazon customer service and your account is aged and in good standing, simply saying your package never arrived, even if tracking says delivered and even if you signed for it, amazon will almost in every case give you a 100% refund or replacement on the spot. In fact, if the scammer is skilled, he can probably double or triple dip the order, in which they'll say their replacement shipment never showed and get another replacement shipment for the original replacement, so in total get 3 iPhones. Another method is to return the item for a refund, but instead of shipping the item back, you place a block of dry ice equal to the weight of the item, so the tracking details say it weight xx pounds on origin, but by the time it arrives to the destination, it'll be completely evaporated and it'll look like it was stolen in transit.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#218

Post by analog31 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:44 AM UTC

codecamper wrote: post #28

Another thing that could be done... is that shippers could help out. UPS, Fedex, USPS could all offer last step photo verification of packages, as a service. A few more dollars and you get a photo of what is inside and the handler packs the box up.

Perhaps a low tech solution might be transparent packaging. "Do not accept this package from the shipper if it doesn't contain what you ordered."

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#219

Post by jessaustin » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:46 AM UTC

maldeh wrote: post #212

iamdave wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never sold on Amazon, so pardon the ignorance: does Amazon have some sort of 'escrow' service to hedge this risk for parties making transactions?

Not quite escrow, but there's 'Fulfillment By Amazon', which takes care of distribution and shipping for you (albeit for additional fulfillment fees), and can be safer for both the buyer and seller since goods pass through inventory checks at a warehouse. (Disclaimer: work with Fulfillment By Amazon)

Can you post or point to more info on how this service works? To ask a specific question, can FbyA could handle items for which it's important for the seller to know which serial number has gone to which buyer?

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#220

Post by analog31 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 4:52 AM UTC

aandon wrote: post #37

My guess is sellers absorb this as a cost of doing business. As long as fraud rates remain in low single digit percentage, it's probably not worth it for the seller or Amazon to fight it. It is always fun to dissect these scams. There's an interesting e-commerce scam prevalent in India that popped up as the country embraced e-commerce without much credit card infrastructure in place (most online orders are paid to th…

Indeed, fraud and shrinkage are costs of doing business for practically any enterprise. My worst experience was being a nice guy and accepting a personal check, which of course bounced, so I was out my cost-of-goods plus an additional fee from the bank.

My main protection is that my cost-of-goods is about 1/5 of my selling price. Also, it's a niche market product that would probably be hard to re-sell. Because of my healthy mark-up, I can afford to handle practically any dispute by offering a prompt refund.

It's tougher if you're not a retailer, but an individual selling a few items, in which case you don't have a mark-up or the law of averages to fall back on.