Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay • Hacker News Board

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#171

Post by mywittyname » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 10:33 PM UTC

gregmac wrote: post #126

jedberg wrote: post #120

When I worked at eBay, we constantly debated whether the policies should be pro seller or pro buyer. You can't be both in a two sided market. Throughout my time there, we switched back and forth, but ultimately decided happy sellers brought in more revenue that happy buyers (but maybe that changed again). Apparently Amazon has decided to be pro buyer right now, which fits with their general model of making happy cust…

Why isn't it based more on a trust system? Amazon records a ton of information about people.. Buyers with a history of claims should generally not be trusted when opening a new claim, and likewise, sellers with a history of claims should not be trusted. New buyers and new sellers (no history) require some more scrutiny, but the default should probably be to be skeptical as well. When new, how hard is it to link an IP…

You're right, it seems like there are a few cheap and easy fraud solutions. You can probably trust the older account that makes regular purchases on Amazon. I bet you can trust a long-time Amazon Prime member even more. Heck, maybe "seller insurance" can be a feature of Prime.

Fraud is exactly the reason just let old electronics sit in my closet. I'd rather let them rot than risk having to pay to give them to somebody else.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#172

Post by corin_ » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 10:35 PM UTC

jliptzin wrote: post #127

This happened to me about 5 years ago on ebay when selling an iPhone. I was an eBay member since 1999, 100% positive feedback, occasional seller (about once a month). I sold a perfectly fine iPhone, buyer with no feedback history complains to eBay he never received the phone despite tracking showing it was delivered. He also leaves me negative feedback (in broken English). eBay sided with the buyer immediately and at…

I have no love for eBay or Paypal, but what should they do in these sorts of situation? If buyer claims they send the product and seller claims they didn't, is there any good way of handling the dispute that doesn't have the potential for screwing over whichever party is innocent? Of course, they could have decided in your favour based on better feedback history, but that would have solved the problem for you, not all problems like this.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#173

Post by joemi » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 10:38 PM UTC

ikeboy wrote: post #96

coryfklein wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true, there are other possibilities. I found the given explanation most likely though: iPhones are all sold by 3rd party sellers on Amazon, so the alternatives you suggest likely wouldn't present as several buyers reporting on a single product that has multiple seller locations.

If they were fulfilled by Amazon, it could be people returning, Amazon not opening the box and then shipping it to the next buyer.

Also Fulfillment-By-Amazon explains that review that mentions "barcode was covered by fake barcode"... All FBA items must cover up any original barcode with Amazon's FNSKU barcode. Either the sellers do it themselves before shipping to Amazon, or they pay a small fee to Amazon to put the barcodes on.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#174

Post by DugFin » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 10:39 PM UTC

jpindar wrote: post #105

derekp7 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like something that social network sites such as FB could get into.

Or nextdoor. Which reminds me, I want to get more of my neighbors to join that.

YMMV with Nextdoor . THe only thing I can vouch for about my neighbors on Nextdoor is that they're all batshit insane racists.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#175

Post by joemi » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 10:41 PM UTC

coryfklein wrote: post #18

jimrandomh wrote: post #8

There are a couple hypotheses the author hasn't considered. It's possible the buyer stole the phone, yes, but it's also possible that it was a warehouse company employee, a shipping company employee, or a previous buyer who made a return.

It's true, there are other possibilities. I found the given explanation most likely though: iPhones are all sold by 3rd party sellers on Amazon, so the alternatives you suggest likely wouldn't present as several buyers reporting on a single product that has multiple seller locations.

To be fair, a lot of reviewers don't realize when there are multiple seller locations. Hell, some people don't even realize that there are third-party sellers on Amazon at all.

If even just one of those sellers is scamming (or just has a bad batch of products) and ships out multiple of these clay boxes, it's not at all surprising that you'd get multiple of these reviews.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#176

Post by ikeboy » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 10:42 PM UTC

joemi wrote: post #173

ikeboy wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were fulfilled by Amazon, it could be people returning, Amazon not opening the box and then shipping it to the next buyer.

Also Fulfillment-By-Amazon explains that review that mentions "barcode was covered by fake barcode"... All FBA items must cover up any original barcode with Amazon's FNSKU barcode. Either the sellers do it themselves before shipping to Amazon, or they pay a small fee to Amazon to put the barcodes on.

You could use commingled inventory and then it doesn't need a label if there's already a barcode.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#177

Post by CaptSpify » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 10:53 PM UTC

corin_ wrote: post #172

jliptzin wrote: post #127

This happened to me about 5 years ago on ebay when selling an iPhone. I was an eBay member since 1999, 100% positive feedback, occasional seller (about once a month). I sold a perfectly fine iPhone, buyer with no feedback history complains to eBay he never received the phone despite tracking showing it was delivered. He also leaves me negative feedback (in broken English). eBay sided with the buyer immediately and at…

I have no love for eBay or Paypal, but what should they do in these sorts of situation? If buyer claims they send the product and seller claims they didn't, is there any good way of handling the dispute that doesn't have the potential for screwing over whichever party is innocent? Of course, they could have decided in your favour based on better feedback history, but that would have solved the problem for you, not al…

Wouldn't tracking the package be the final decision maker? If it was "taken off the porch", then the buyer should have opted for signature required.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#178

Post by ndesaulniers » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 11:03 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #130

wvenable wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craigslist

Yes, but Craigslist is a huge pain in the ass. 1. Craigslist is slow. On eBay, you're done in 7 days. It can be pretty hard to get full market value on Craigslist in anywhere near that amount of time, if at all, especially if you're in a smaller city. 2. People on Craigslist are flaky. I have no idea what compels someone to email a seller with interest, schedule a time to view an item, and then just not show up, but…

> 2. People on Craigslist are flaky. I have no idea what compels someone to email a seller with interest, schedule a time to view an item, and then just not show up, but they do it all the time. Why even bother?

I was beginning to think that buyers on Craigslist are instructed to act this way. :P

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#179

Post by jedberg » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 11:18 PM UTC

gregmac wrote: post #126

jedberg wrote: post #120

When I worked at eBay, we constantly debated whether the policies should be pro seller or pro buyer. You can't be both in a two sided market. Throughout my time there, we switched back and forth, but ultimately decided happy sellers brought in more revenue that happy buyers (but maybe that changed again). Apparently Amazon has decided to be pro buyer right now, which fits with their general model of making happy cust…

Why isn't it based more on a trust system? Amazon records a ton of information about people.. Buyers with a history of claims should generally not be trusted when opening a new claim, and likewise, sellers with a history of claims should not be trusted. New buyers and new sellers (no history) require some more scrutiny, but the default should probably be to be skeptical as well. When new, how hard is it to link an IP…

It's actually really easy to game the trust system. Back in the day a common scam was for a seller to sell a whole bunch of cheap books, and actually deliver with great customer service. Then they would switch to selling TVs and other high ticket items, which people would buy from the highly rated seller. Needless to say they never sent the TVs.

That one was easy to spot after a few times, but it's always a cat and mouse game. As soon as they figure out what the inputs are into the system, they game it to their advantage.

At the end of the day you have to have policies that aren't tied to the reputation to make things fair and that is where the debate about pro-seller vs pro-buyer comes in.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#180

Post by jedberg » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 11:20 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #171

gregmac wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it based more on a trust system? Amazon records a ton of information about people.. Buyers with a history of claims should generally not be trusted when opening a new claim, and likewise, sellers with a history of claims should not be trusted. New buyers and new sellers (no history) require some more scrutiny, but the default should probably be to be skeptical as well. When new, how hard is it to link an IP…

You're right, it seems like there are a few cheap and easy fraud solutions. You can probably trust the older account that makes regular purchases on Amazon. I bet you can trust a long-time Amazon Prime member even more. Heck, maybe "seller insurance" can be a feature of Prime. Fraud is exactly the reason just let old electronics sit in my closet. I'd rather let them rot than risk having to pay to give them to somebod…

> You're right, it seems like there are a few cheap and easy fraud solutions

You'll just have to take my word for it that eBay and Amazon, companies that have been dealing with fraud since 1995, have implemented all of the cheap and easy solutions. :)