Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay • Hacker News Board

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#111

Post by eli » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:20 PM UTC

codecamper wrote: post #28

Another thing that could be done... is that shippers could help out. UPS, Fedex, USPS could all offer last step photo verification of packages, as a service. A few more dollars and you get a photo of what is inside and the handler packs the box up.

That seems like a service that would cost quite a few dollars to implement and would only force the fraudsters to try a little bit harder.

I had someone buy my cell phone on eBay and then return it as broken by sending back a different nonfunctional phone. They even swapped the serial number sticker inside the battery compartment.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#112

Post by ericabiz » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

jackarbitrage wrote: post #56

soyiuz wrote: post #17

I've had a similar thing happened to me a few years back when I sold a no longer needed but still unopened Windows Vista DVD that I purchased directly from MS Store (on Microsoft campus). The buyer returned the package, but the returned merchandize was clearly counterfeit. The box was of a light material, missing holograms, faded colors etc. The buyer's history was full of similar purchases. I've been careful about d…

>This works because Amazon heavily favors customers in their A-Z Guarantee claim process, and sellers don’t tend to record video evidence when shipping expensive merchandise (which they should) FWIW my friend and I made an app called "Emberall" it makes it easy to record/label video and save it to the cloud. It's mostly used my new moms recording their kids, but would be equally useful to anyone that wanted to regula…

As a buyer, I could still win a claim against you for bad shipping, though. We run two repair shops where we buy a LOT of parts on eBay, and the way some people ship things is atrocious. We've received laptop keyboards with keys hanging off, LCD screens that are broken--even video evidence wouldn't be sufficient for you, as the seller, to win the case if poor shipping is involved.

It's bad for sellers, too. Imagine shipping a $400 LCD (this is approximately how much the MacBook Pro retina screens cost) and the buyer receives it scratched or broken. It happens alarmingly often. As the seller, the only thing you can do is replace or refund. That's why you basically have to make a ton of profit off of these--or really learn how to package them (many sellers won't bother.)

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#113

Post by pizza234 » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:28 PM UTC

ndesaulniers wrote: post #45

soyiuz wrote: post #17

I've had a similar thing happened to me a few years back when I sold a no longer needed but still unopened Windows Vista DVD that I purchased directly from MS Store (on Microsoft campus). The buyer returned the package, but the returned merchandize was clearly counterfeit. The box was of a light material, missing holograms, faded colors etc. The buyer's history was full of similar purchases. I've been careful about d…

The same could be said for eBay. Buyer of my MBP opened a claim against me cause I didn't include the OS install disks (which Apple stopped shipping years earlier). Had to bend over backwards to prevent this con artist from keeping the laptop and money. Now I don't sell shit on eBay.

You are identifying eBay with Paypal. If you accept, say, only bank transfer, the worst thing that can happen (in "regular" conditions; of course there are exceptional cases) is a negative feedback.

I've sold hundreds of items on eBay, almost all payable only via bank transfer/cash, and never had serious problems. If I get a smaller audience, well, that's an acceptable compromise in the long term.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#114

Post by jcrawfordor » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:32 PM UTC

waterphone wrote: post #92

coderdude wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to say this but you basically have to trust these types of authorities when it comes to this type of "trust." You wouldn't believe how many people are out to scam. It's endemic in anything that involves money. I'd say "few bad eggs" but it's mostly shit eggs amongst a few good eggs.

So for those of us who simply don't meet their definition for an identifiable individual (e.g. someone who borrows money and allows their borrowing history to be monitored by commercial and government entities), what, we're just shit out of luck? Credit history being a requirement for identity verification is becoming more and more pervasive, and I am increasingly locked out of participating in both private and gover…

If you've opted not to use the services of the finance industry, then you may not be able to use the services of the finance industry.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#115

Post by rtkwe » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:34 PM UTC

Maarten88 wrote: post #106

nkozyra wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as the story relates, these people tend to set up new accounts each time. There's little risk here involved for the scammer.

Can't they blacklist shipping addresses and/or credit cards? These people open new accounts for a reason; I'd think Amazon could connect and analyze data to discover and mark/blacklist scammers.

Hard to stop with pre-paid debit cards and PO boxes or mail forwarding services. It'd be pretty easy to just open a new one PO/forwarding address and use a different pre paid debit/VISA gift card to keep scamming.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#116

Post by seanp2k2 » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:40 PM UTC

Pyxl101 wrote: post #74

thenomad wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently decided not to sell several expensive bits of electronics on eBay because multiple people warned me about this sort of fraud. Real pity because it's hard to know where to sell that sort of thing these days.

What if there was an EBay like action site where you couldn't just sign up, and rather someone had to "vouch" for you? When fraud starts happening, you can see who vouched them in and shut down the network. If people start selling vouches online, then you suspend both them and the person who had the bad judgment to vouch them in originally. (maybe they can keep using the site, but not vouch, etc.) The site would also…

FYI, this is exactly how the better torrent sites work.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#117

Post by ZeroGravitas » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

dietrichepp wrote: post #81

lfowles wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, "Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11847858

That's a nasty corner case of PA state law, combined with a defendant who failed to respond to claims .

I read that when it was posted, and I got the I pressing the conman was pulling some trick to claim he had informed the other party, but hadn't actually done so. If that's the case then you'd need ESP to avoid being scammed.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#118

Post by mrep » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #90

ndesaulniers wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could be said for eBay. Buyer of my MBP opened a claim against me cause I didn't include the OS install disks (which Apple stopped shipping years earlier). Had to bend over backwards to prevent this con artist from keeping the laptop and money. Now I don't sell shit on eBay.

In my (fortunately limited) eBay selling experience, you also just have some very stupid people. I got into a hassle with selling a brand new digital camera to someone because they refused to understand (in barely coherent English) that the "digital zoom" in the specs cut & pasted from the manufacturer was not a "zoom on the outside" to use his terminology. I haven't sold on eBay for ages. There's very little I want…

Yep. When I sold my last Iphone, the guy said the wifi had connection issues (It was the version where your finger could reduce the signal). I told him that that was a known problem with the phone, but if he still had problems with it, he could take it to an apple store as the phone still had applecare+. He said the apple people are mean and he didn't trust them. He kept trying to get me to compensate him $50 for a repair until finally he ended up returning. So annoying.

Another lesson about ebay: Don't ever ship something to an address other than the one ebay has. My brother sold his phone and the guy asked him to ship it to "his daughter's house for a present". Turns out the account had been hacked and now he had just sent his phone to a scammer.

The last horror story i have: The same brother sold an iphone on ebay and the guy claimed it came with the screen cracked. Ebay sided with him on the return and my brother received a letter in return with nothing in it. Fortunately for him that time, ebay just let him keep the money and the scammer keep the phone (albeit, after 2 hours of arguing with their customer service).

TLDR: I've had way too terrible experiences on ebay to ever use them again.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#119

Post by seanp2k2 » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:44 PM UTC

waterphone wrote: post #92

coderdude wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to say this but you basically have to trust these types of authorities when it comes to this type of "trust." You wouldn't believe how many people are out to scam. It's endemic in anything that involves money. I'd say "few bad eggs" but it's mostly shit eggs amongst a few good eggs.

So for those of us who simply don't meet their definition for an identifiable individual (e.g. someone who borrows money and allows their borrowing history to be monitored by commercial and government entities), what, we're just shit out of luck? Credit history being a requirement for identity verification is becoming more and more pervasive, and I am increasingly locked out of participating in both private and gover…

I leaned a long time ago that hating the game and trying to fight it doesn't do much to change the game; the choice personally was more "play and figure out how to win" or "lose and be bitter about it". I now have great credit and don't pay any interest on things but receive a cut of the reward from their ridiculous merchant CC processing fees.

Re: Scammers Game Amazon A-Z Policy By Replacing iPhones With Clay

#120

Post by jedberg » Mon, Jun 20, 2016, 7:44 PM UTC

When I worked at eBay, we constantly debated whether the policies should be pro seller or pro buyer. You can't be both in a two sided market.

Throughout my time there, we switched back and forth, but ultimately decided happy sellers brought in more revenue that happy buyers (but maybe that changed again).

Apparently Amazon has decided to be pro buyer right now, which fits with their general model of making happy customers.