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An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#81

Post by patcheudor »

ucaetano wrote: post #74
JulianMorrison wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, all the purposes are real. It's a win-win. Get warned of idiots, collect data that will be useful to insurers (and probably to self driving cars too, I can imagine Google cars giving detected hotheads a wide berth). I can see one group of people having a legit beef with this though: car rental companies. One idiot behind the wheel, and their fleet car might as well go straight to scrap.

"One idiot behind the wheel, and their fleet car might as well go straight to scrap." Unless, of course, they pay this nice fee to have their fleet cars whitelisted in the app, call it "bad driver protection money"!

The point being, once everyone has this thing in their car and everyone is being watched while they are driving, everyone will be marked as an idiot. Even the safest drivers make stupid moves. Even worse, by what metric is an idiot made? I drive aggressively, trying to find open space on the road whenever I can. To do this I speed and otherwise make abrupt lane changes. If I'm on a road trip and someone is following me too closely I'll speed up to 140 MPH to put some distance between us in short order. The thing is, I've never been in an accident and have literally raced cars on the Nurburgring in Germany without incident. I have a driving style which works for me and works for others around me as I'm not in accidents and I don't cause accidents. My mother-in-law on the other hand who drives five under everywhere and by most people's metrics is a safe driver has been in two accidents in the last five years. Neither of which were her fault of course (said with some sarcasm).

All I can see this accomplishing is adding yet one more gadget app for people to be distracted by.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#82

Post by FilterSweep »

a_imho wrote: post #73
kylec wrote: post #40

The real purpose of this app isn't the rating system, that's just the hook to get people to run this app and point the camera out their dashboards. The real purpose is to crowdsource collecting data about the drivers on the road in order to sell that data to interested parties.

It really sounds like a slapped on excuse for the next incarnation of the data collection biz. How would they generate revenue if not by selling the collected data to 3rd parties? Because imo that is the most straightforward option. Missing this bit entirely in the article is disingenuous and concerning. I'm not too sure about opaque code rating drivers either, though people might be ok with it.

agreed - it is a huge sell for insurance companies.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#83

Post by JulianMorrison »

patcheudor wrote: post #81
ucaetano wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One idiot behind the wheel, and their fleet car might as well go straight to scrap." Unless, of course, they pay this nice fee to have their fleet cars whitelisted in the app, call it "bad driver protection money"!

The point being, once everyone has this thing in their car and everyone is being watched while they are driving, everyone will be marked as an idiot. Even the safest drivers make stupid moves. Even worse, by what metric is an idiot made? I drive aggressively, trying to find open space on the road whenever I can. To do this I speed and otherwise make abrupt lane changes. If I'm on a road trip and someone is following…

This sounds like you drive like an idiot. And so you should be marked as one, and are grumpy about it. Well, tough.

Basically what you're doing is playing Russian roulette, and you keep "winning", well yeah, that happens, right up until it doesn't.

Drive like a Google car. Stop being an idiot. Get a smiley face score.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#84

Post by JulianMorrison »

chillingeffect wrote: post #79
JulianMorrison wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, all the purposes are real. It's a win-win. Get warned of idiots, collect data that will be useful to insurers (and probably to self driving cars too, I can imagine Google cars giving detected hotheads a wide berth). I can see one group of people having a legit beef with this though: car rental companies. One idiot behind the wheel, and their fleet car might as well go straight to scrap.

That's imagining this system in the most perfect light: shiny, new and not gamed. The opportunities for misinformation and asymmetricality are huge. Don't like someone? Clone their license plate for a day and drive like an ass. How could you ever prove your innocence? Loan your car to a friend and they could tarnish your reputation. It would make it inhibitive to share vehicles. This is technology that drives us fart…

Cloning someone's license plate isn't exactly trivial and isn't exactly legal.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#85

Post by chillingeffect »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #31

There seems to be a disturbing trend of Israeli developers creating software that crosses some serious ethical lines. A few offhand: this, an iPhone backdoor exploit they're hiding and have provided to the us government, I believe the biggest license plate reader developer is Israeli. Can anyone speak to this? Am I observing this on some kind of bias?

It's not just you. With a heritage of Soviet-era immigrants and an atmosphere of paranoia, the space of "technological solutions" in Israel looks different than it does in other cultures. If I had a moment (in a meeting atm), I'd go through and research some of the strides their scientists have been making in oppressive technology.

Also, Stephen Hawking himself has recently participated in a boycott of Israel: [1]

[1] http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/is-stephen-hawking-s-acade...

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#86

Post by Justsignedup »

FilterSweep wrote: post #82
a_imho wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really sounds like a slapped on excuse for the next incarnation of the data collection biz. How would they generate revenue if not by selling the collected data to 3rd parties? Because imo that is the most straightforward option. Missing this bit entirely in the article is disingenuous and concerning. I'm not too sure about opaque code rating drivers either, though people might be ok with it.

agreed - it is a huge sell for insurance companies.

They already do this. BUT maybe this will provide benefit for customers.

And since its collecting ALL data, including visual and audio, this is a voluntary spy device. Imagine if the government demanded that data be handed over and starts using that to spy on people. IMO this is not a stretch of the imagination.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#87

Post by Justsignedup »

patcheudor wrote: post #81
ucaetano wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One idiot behind the wheel, and their fleet car might as well go straight to scrap." Unless, of course, they pay this nice fee to have their fleet cars whitelisted in the app, call it "bad driver protection money"!

The point being, once everyone has this thing in their car and everyone is being watched while they are driving, everyone will be marked as an idiot. Even the safest drivers make stupid moves. Even worse, by what metric is an idiot made? I drive aggressively, trying to find open space on the road whenever I can. To do this I speed and otherwise make abrupt lane changes. If I'm on a road trip and someone is following…

> The point being, once everyone has this thing in their car and everyone is being watched while they are driving, everyone will be marked as an idiot.

I tell this to anyone who rages: You drive and meet a LOT of people on your way. You don't make a lot of mistakes, but you make a few at least every drive.

Now given that you meet a lot of people you are most likely seeing a ton of mistakes by people. But individually they are not really making many mistakes.

Sure some people are horrible, but not all. And often the horrible ones are behind you.

And also, no matter how "safe" you are, it only takes 1 mistake to kill a person. Example, yesterday I was driving, a guy went nuts behind me and almost killed a motorcyclist. I saw that and it distracted me long enough to almost not notice the car that short-stopped in front of me. Literally 2 more seconds and it would have been a wreck. And I consider myself a safe driver, but it only takes one moment of distraction.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#88

Post by FilterSweep »

sokoloff wrote: post #66
noja wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely at the moment . That stops being okay once amber alerts start to be misused.

Here's where I believe "think of the children" madness works in favor of people who think like I do. Law enforcement and the DoJ will be very reluctant to start issuing Amber Alerts for drug dealers, bank robbers, bail skippers, and the like. Even missing elderly get Silver Alerts (where they could have just as easily be lumped into Amber Alerts). Amber Alerts for my area come to my cell phone and I can't recall gett…

FWIW, Amber Alerts have already begun to include domestic custody battles, and whether one considers bringing the general public into a domestic dispute is an overreach or not, I guess is up to you.

In my area, until I turned them off, I received at least 2 alerts per week and the vast majority of these were domestic-related (as in, one true parent of the child had the child when they were not legally allotted to - and the other parent reported it).

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#89

Post by mikestew »

FilterSweep wrote: post #88
sokoloff wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's where I believe "think of the children" madness works in favor of people who think like I do. Law enforcement and the DoJ will be very reluctant to start issuing Amber Alerts for drug dealers, bank robbers, bail skippers, and the like. Even missing elderly get Silver Alerts (where they could have just as easily be lumped into Amber Alerts). Amber Alerts for my area come to my cell phone and I can't recall gett…

FWIW, Amber Alerts have already begun to include domestic custody battles, and whether one considers bringing the general public into a domestic dispute is an overreach or not, I guess is up to you. In my area, until I turned them off, I received at least 2 alerts per week and the vast majority of these were domestic-related (as in, one true parent of the child had the child when they were not legally allotted to - a…

FWIW, Amber Alerts have already begun to include domestic custody battles

From my observation Amber Alerts have always been domestic squabbles. Before I turned them off on every device in the house, I don't recall a one that wasn't a divorce dispute. In other words, not a one was a reason to make every phone in the office make noise. In other other words, we collectively found out that all of these "abductions" wouldn't fit within the definition that most of us use for the word.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#90

Post by cgriswald »

nl wrote: post #41
cgriswald wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience as both a cyclist and a driver in the Bay Area, I have no interest in the opinions of other cyclists on driver behavior. Cyclists largely disregard the rules of the road and then blame drivers. As a driver, I have been at the receiving end of abusive gestures and language even when following the law. In one case, I yielded to a bicyclist who was in blatant violation of the law[0], because failure to…

So.. cameras == good for both, then?

Cameras frequently fail to capture context and released footage is often edited. Cameras often serve to justify existing biases.

I recently watched a video compilation put together by a truck driver who intended to show the dangerous behavior of passenger vehicles. It showed what it intended, but it also showed dangerous truck driver behavior. When this behavior was pointed out, the truck drivers in the comment section came up with many excuses for why this behavior was acceptable. One actually argued that in one of the scenarios the truck driver should not have had to yield (despite being required to do so by law) because accelerating back up to speed was expensive in terms of fuel.

So there was proof positive that this truck driver not only violated the law, but created an unsafe situation in a video specifically edited to show it was not truck drivers but passenger vehicles which caused unsafe situations, and this group of truck drivers defended the behavior.

In that case, the truck driver was ignorant and stupid. His behavior wasn't changed. And I see that a lot in YouTube videos about drivers of vehicle X complaining about drivers of vehicle Y. Anyone pointing out mistakes made by the driver of vehicle X is shouted down, nonsense about what is legal is posted (most of it wrong or incomplete), and everyone who drives a vehicle X shares their own (possibly apocryphal) stories about people driving vehicle Y.

So no, even with camera, I don't care much about the opinions of cyclists on drivers. Cameras can be good, but they can also be bad or indifferent, and nine times out of ten, I've got questions even after seeing the video.

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