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If ICANN only charges 18¢ per domain name, why am I paying $10? (2014)

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Re: If ICANN only charges 18¢ per domain name, why am I paying $10? (2014)

#111

Post by rahimnathwani »

ericd wrote: post #78
forgottenpass wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to hear good arguments against this Squeezing out squatters also squeezes out anyone without means from domains they're not using for commercial purposes. I already spend too much money keeping things online. Of the handful of domains I don't do much with, one is just for my primary email account. The same name is registered on other TLDs so there would probably be some demand for it. Am I making a "useful"…

It's a limited shared resource, and if someone else would do something with it that's worth the fairly reasonable sum of $8/mo, when it's not worth that to you, then yeah, I'd rather they have it, especially if it also means that good names aren't all camped on by rent seekers who do literally nothing with the domain. That said, I think we should just price all .com's higher, regardless of demand for specific domains…

If it were worth $8 per month to someone else, but not to forgottenpass, that person could just pay forgottenpass $8 per month (or some lump sum equivalent). That this does not happen suggests one of the following possibilities:

1. The domain name is not worth $8/month to someone else

2. The domain name is worth $8/month to forgottenpass

3. The market for domain names is inefficient

Re: If ICANN only charges 18¢ per domain name, why am I paying $10? (2014)

#112

Post by collinmanderson »

ericd wrote: post #78
forgottenpass wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to hear good arguments against this Squeezing out squatters also squeezes out anyone without means from domains they're not using for commercial purposes. I already spend too much money keeping things online. Of the handful of domains I don't do much with, one is just for my primary email account. The same name is registered on other TLDs so there would probably be some demand for it. Am I making a "useful"…

It's a limited shared resource, and if someone else would do something with it that's worth the fairly reasonable sum of $8/mo, when it's not worth that to you, then yeah, I'd rather they have it, especially if it also means that good names aren't all camped on by rent seekers who do literally nothing with the domain. That said, I think we should just price all .com's higher, regardless of demand for specific domains…

It would be interesting if there were something similar to real estate tax, where you get charged yearly based on market value.

Re: If ICANN only charges 18¢ per domain name, why am I paying $10? (2014)

#113

Post by ericd »

zhte415 wrote: post #95
ericd wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a limited shared resource, and if someone else would do something with it that's worth the fairly reasonable sum of $8/mo, when it's not worth that to you, then yeah, I'd rather they have it, especially if it also means that good names aren't all camped on by rent seekers who do literally nothing with the domain. That said, I think we should just price all .com's higher, regardless of demand for specific domains…

The thing about seeking rent, is that's domain names are not a limited resource, even .COM. Domain squatters are seeking rent, but not in a traditional sense of a limited amount of land. A creative individual can come up with a new, memorable name. If you have a service about pets, then pets.com doesn't have to be your name. For example, a friend really wanted [firstname][lastname].com, but there happened to be a hug…

Sure, there are a nearly unbounded number of .com domain names, but there absolutely is a limited number of memorable, reasonable length domain names in .com, which is what I and everyone else are referring to when we talk about this problem. If there wasn't, you wouldn't have domain squatting.

One's target audience generally has a harder time picking up and remembering completely made up names.

Re: If ICANN only charges 18¢ per domain name, why am I paying $10? (2014)

#114

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

brador wrote: post #105
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if we did the same with names in general? If someone wanted to be brador on HN, and you didn't out-bid them, they were to get your name. Oh, and your real name, too, of course. If someone pays enough, you have to get a new name. And a new telephone number. And a new house. And anything else you own, really. If someone offers more money than you have, you are forced to sell at that price whatever you have. What c…

So long as i get say 90% of what the final buy price is and I get to bid on my own things too? Yeah that would actually be awesome.

You do realize that anyone who had more money than you could take away everything you have with no recourse? One simple strategy would be to force-buy from you your bed and all your food at a price a little above the market price. Now, you can either accept the offer and thus get paid only about 90% of the market price, or you can reject and pay 10% of the market price. In the former case, you buy a new bed and new food, and the cycle repeats. In the latter case, the cycle repeats directly. In any case, after a few cycles, you won't have anything left.

Also, anything that you own that is more valuable than you have money, will just be taken from you, as people will offer to pay a little more than you can pay, thus forcing you to sell, and then will resell at market value, thus earning money from the difference. So, people without money couldn't own anything anymore.

Re: If ICANN only charges 18¢ per domain name, why am I paying $10? (2014)

#115

Post by brador »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #114
brador wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as i get say 90% of what the final buy price is and I get to bid on my own things too? Yeah that would actually be awesome.

You do realize that anyone who had more money than you could take away everything you have with no recourse? One simple strategy would be to force-buy from you your bed and all your food at a price a little above the market price. Now, you can either accept the offer and thus get paid only about 90% of the market price, or you can reject and pay 10% of the market price. In the former case, you buy a new bed and new f…

1. Food and bed are commodities, a domain name isn't.

2. > Also, anything that you own that is more valuable than you have money, will just be taken from you, as people will offer to pay a little more than you can pay, thus forcing you to sell, and then will resell at market value, thus earning money from the difference.

This makes no sense. The proposal is an open auction. Anyone can bid. The seller cannot turn around and sell to someone else, because that someone else would have bid too if they wanted it, driving up the price. Hence, the price the auction ends at is the true market value of the domain, not $10.

Re: If ICANN only charges 18¢ per domain name, why am I paying $10? (2014)

#116

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

brador wrote: post #115
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that anyone who had more money than you could take away everything you have with no recourse? One simple strategy would be to force-buy from you your bed and all your food at a price a little above the market price. Now, you can either accept the offer and thus get paid only about 90% of the market price, or you can reject and pay 10% of the market price. In the former case, you buy a new bed and new f…

1. Food and bed are commodities, a domain name isn't. 2. > Also, anything that you own that is more valuable than you have money, will just be taken from you, as people will offer to pay a little more than you can pay, thus forcing you to sell, and then will resell at market value, thus earning money from the difference. This makes no sense. The proposal is an open auction. Anyone can bid. The seller cannot turn arou…

> Food and bed are commodities, a domain name isn't.

Which is relevant how? That you cannot just buy an equivalent replacement, therefore, it's even worse if you are forced to sell?

> Hence, the price the auction ends at is the true market value of the domain, not $10.

1. Per your suggestion, the seller still is ten percent short on the market value, so someone with money can still bankcrupt you simply by repeatedly forcing you to sell (or prevent you from ever obtaining whatever goods/property this rule is supposed to apply to).

2. No, it wouldn't actually discover the market price for an illiquid good, as the seller is effectively prevented from bidding what they value it at. If the thing that they are being forced to sell is worth a million dollars to them, they cannot actually bid that much if they don't happen to have 100000 dollars to spend on top, even though they supposedly own this thing that's worth a million dollars, which should normally be enough to buy that same million dollar thing. The only way to make that work would be if the seller got all of the money. In which case it would be completely pointless, as the seller could simply always bid 10 quadrillion dollars, win the auction, and pay themselves.

Re: If ICANN only charges 18¢ per domain name, why am I paying $10? (2014)

#117

Post by joelrunyon »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #84
thedevil wrote: post #39

An idea I've been tossing around: What if domains cost $100 if more than one person wants it? The idea here is to squeeze the squatters with 000s of domains. Whenever I want a domain, most of the ones I want are taken. Not by people who are making use of it, but by people who are squatting in hopes of extorting anyone who would actually use the domain to produce value. I'd actually be happy if Verisign or any other p…

The reason squatters work is in fact, the dispute resolution cost. A friend of mine passed away, and along with him went control of the domain of a site I was a part of. He had, prior to his death, left a note that me and another friend were supposed to keep the site running. And I own two of the other TLDs of this domain. Domain squatting is supposedly against ICANN rules, and we have a clear brand we're trying to p…

When you mean "squatted" - you mean that you (or someone) let the domain expire and forgot the registration fee.

That's not "squatting" or stealing. You just forgot to renew it or have a backup card on file or transfer the domain after his death.

You make it sound like someone came in and stole it when the onus is technically on you to maintain control of this domain. You can register a domain for multiple years if the domain is important in case of an unexpected accident (or death).

Re: If ICANN only charges 18¢ per domain name, why am I paying $10? (2014)

#118

Post by ocdtrekkie »

joelrunyon wrote: post #117
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason squatters work is in fact, the dispute resolution cost. A friend of mine passed away, and along with him went control of the domain of a site I was a part of. He had, prior to his death, left a note that me and another friend were supposed to keep the site running. And I own two of the other TLDs of this domain. Domain squatting is supposedly against ICANN rules, and we have a clear brand we're trying to p…

When you mean "squatted" - you mean that you (or someone) let the domain expire and forgot the registration fee. That's not "squatting" or stealing. You just forgot to renew it or have a backup card on file or transfer the domain after his death. You make it sound like someone came in and stole it when the onus is technically on you to maintain control of this domain. You can register a domain for multiple years if t…

Unfortunately, yes, we lost control of the domain because nobody was able to secure a renewal for it. The problem is that after that, it was sold to a third party, not the registrar, who listed it for an exorbitant price. They have no interest in the domain other than selling it to us, and it has little to no value to anyone else.
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