Live data from Hacker News

The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

spectrum.ieee.org

101–110 of 238 posts

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, even the hackers post their blog posts nowadays to centralized networks. Why every article has to be on medium.com - I have no idea - but it's very similar pattern the regular users of Internet have.

Because when you create content, you don't necessarily want to create, or host the system to manage that content. By the same not, more and more projects are just using gh-pages... it's useful, out there, free (of cost to those publishing) and in general works. In the end, there's a lot of options, I think seeing IPFS support baked into the browsers will see a new wave the likes that we saw in the late 90's of custom…

Indeed. I am looking forward to IPFS being more widely deployed. I'd even volunteer if I had the time... :(

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#102
post #89
post #68

Whatever the solution is, I really believe data must be on user's devices, not on proprietary servers. Open source won the battle of software. The next battle will be about data itself. It surely implies very hard problems when it comes to standardization and how data is exchanged. It might involve something like flatbuffers. How data is exchanged, what rights you have on it, how it is made secure, there are no ubiqu…

> Open source won the battle of software. It has not won critical battles on the hardware, firmware, productivity, or gaming fronts. Your hardware is still holistically proprietary with baked in proprietary CPUs, the firmware is still entirely proprietary and ripe for backdoor exploitation, video games are still by-and-large proprietary and even decades old titles remain so and die in cultural death for it, and compa…

Unfortunately you are correct. However there are many people who aren't OK with this status quo and a good percentage of them are actively working on trying to change it. There are MANY projects that aim to create an universal IoT platform out of Raspberry Pi-s and although this is 1000x times behind building a fully competitive i7 CPU non-proprietary alternative, it's still a good start.

The corporations are shamelessly playing the "they cannot live without our products" but this is already turning on them. It might not be in our lifetimes but I believe that the people in general are slowly but surely becoming aware that in fact they _can_ live without corporate / proprietary products.

At least that's what I hope for.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#103
post #73
post #40

Ok, a lot of people don't know the context for this. Last week, the Internet Archive ran the Decentralized Web Summit. It was an opportunity for new projects [1] to gather with prominent people in the industry [2]. It was productive and very fun. It also resulted in a bunch of news pieces, like this one, which have been hitting the HN FP for a week. Some of those articles have been better than others; a lot of them f…

> Zooko threw cold water on everybody ("Is this just 1999 again?") I have all the respect in the world for people like Vint Cerf, but the fact that he mentioned "copyright" and "intellectual property" twice in his list of otherwise quite interesting proposals make me doubtful about "1999" ever making a come-back. (I personally view the 1999-2005 or so period as a "good" one for the Internet, all of the dreams of that…

> Google built its business and its current $500+ billion status on stealing other websites' content and storing it on their servers.

Dont forget the stolen bandwidth with adverts and spiders.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#105
post #40

Ok, a lot of people don't know the context for this. Last week, the Internet Archive ran the Decentralized Web Summit. It was an opportunity for new projects [1] to gather with prominent people in the industry [2]. It was productive and very fun. It also resulted in a bunch of news pieces, like this one, which have been hitting the HN FP for a week. Some of those articles have been better than others; a lot of them f…

I also attended the Decentralized Web Summit (the first 6 hours) and it was great. I hope they have this every year. The Summit was inexpensive, the venue at the Internet Archive building was cool, the speakers and panels were uniformly interesting, and the food was tasty. Good job by the organizers! I sometimes I feel like I am by my self on privacy and freedom issues. Very few of my non-tech friends & family get wh…

> sometimes I feel like I am by my self on privacy and freedom issues. Very few of my non-tech friends & family get why I think government and corporate encroachment on privacy and freedom is an issue

Privacy and Freedom are values. The web (along with Facebook et.al.) is a product.

I once read that Steve Jobs told Drew Houston that file sync was "a feature not a product". Obvi SJ was wrong but it's an interesting distinction to make.

The WWW as Tim designed it solved a problem it turns out many people have. Most people don't perceive a privacy and freedom problem though. The can say what they want online and most of us haven't felt tangible effects from a loss of privacy. Perception is reality after all.

What I want to know is what is the next revolutionary WWW like Internet product that solves a pain many people feel? After the WWW what hidden pain is there that might bring about innovation in the truest sense?

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#106
What is the web, essentially? Connection. Connecting communication, connecting content, connecting media, connecting communities, connecting trade. The Web is designed to connect things.

The web is already decentralized; just ask anyone who was at one time restricted to the "online service providers" like AOL, CompuServe and Prodigy. But whether or not the web is decentralized, it still connects things. I don't think decentralization will improve the connections; rather, as anyone who has ever run a large network will tell you, decentralization causes almost as many problems as it solves.

In many ways, making the web more decentralized could make it easier to defeat its simple design and raise new problems. So to my mind, we need to be addressing more specific challenges and design with the intent to address those challenges, and not simply to make change for change's sake, the way most technological improvements have haphazardly occurred.

As a very simple example of the decentralization of the web, let's look at the real new Web: mobile application platforms. On Apple's platform, pornography is not allowed. This is the result of the kind of "social protections" that our societies have traditionally been governed by. But if this was instead totally decentralized, there could be the potential for "harming children" and other persons sensitive to certain content, and as a result, governments both local and around the world may enact laws forbidding certain content on the network, or even the whole network itself.

Is the loss of certain content like pornography - specifically in a _centralized_ marketplace like the Apple Store - worth the access to such a large marketplace of content and applications? Or should we tempt society at large with unrestricted access to content? One could argue that if we were not so dependent on the internet already, modern uses could have resulted in it being banned around the globe long ago.

Here's an example of a targeted solution: an open platform, with subscriber-specific controls. Imagine a universal mobile network and platform, so apps would just run on Android, iOS, etc. But now, to find and access the applications, you would pay $1.99 a month to a company that curates the content for you. Less of what you consider garbage, more practical content. And you could use the company that restricts pornography, or the company that promotes totally unrestricted content. Suddenly there is both increased freedom, choice, and universal compatibility.

Then there's questions of how connected we really want to be. YouTube comments and Twitter are some examples that to me exemplify the kind of harsh environment that the human mind is capable of creating. Will decentralizing the web further result in an increase in this kind of damaging combination of anonymity and unrestricted communication? Is humanity really ready to have an unrestricted, unlimited form of connection?

Now keeping that in mind, let's imagine a new decentralized web: platforms that provide the same content in different ways. Imagine being able to browse YouTube comments, and only see the ones flagged as positive, uplifting, and helpful - but not by YouTube users, but anyone who used that specific browsing platform. You could choose a platform that conforms with your particular world view, and thus see primarily content that you agree with. But wouldn't this simply breed new forms of closed societies that don't take into account things that you don't like, or information you wouldn't have normally wanted to see or hear? Could this not actually set humanity back by reducing exposure to the parts of life we may not like, but are ultimately real and part of society?

We are as flawed as we are complex, and the unforeseen side-effects of the changes we implement will affect the future of how humanity is connected. I think we should tread carefully.

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#107

That's funny, they are basically describing our platform. http://qbix.com/platform

That's funny, they're really not.

According to your own documentation, you have a traditional centralised client-server architecture. (Albeit one with some bells and whistles.)

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Get the corporations work with us" didn't work so far, I don't think it will magically start working from now on. It's my opinion (which is somewhat "backed" by a load of tech and economical news; I know that's not an evidence for anything) that the corporations are just fine with the situation right now; if anything, they fight to centralize even more services. It's true that projects like "the next web" (or howeve…

What I meant was talking about design ideas endlessly won't get much done. You get an idea out there, you build the thing, and than you standardize. Sure, talking to people is necessary and incredibly important, but don't overdesign and than wait to get everybody's permission. If you want to change the world, getting a working, if unpolished, version of your idea made is your first order of buisiness.

Yes, you're correct. Trouble is, the people who can make this run much faster in terms of adoption and being end-user-friendly, are senior devs and maintainers and have zilch amount of time for this. :(

The game is mostly rigged but some of us still find the time and motivation to try and apply some forced evolution. ;)

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#109
post #40

Ok, a lot of people don't know the context for this. Last week, the Internet Archive ran the Decentralized Web Summit. It was an opportunity for new projects [1] to gather with prominent people in the industry [2]. It was productive and very fun. It also resulted in a bunch of news pieces, like this one, which have been hitting the HN FP for a week. Some of those articles have been better than others; a lot of them f…

I also attended the Decentralized Web Summit (the first 6 hours) and it was great. I hope they have this every year. The Summit was inexpensive, the venue at the Internet Archive building was cool, the speakers and panels were uniformly interesting, and the food was tasty. Good job by the organizers! I sometimes I feel like I am by my self on privacy and freedom issues. Very few of my non-tech friends & family get wh…

[deleted]

Re: The Fathers of the Internet Urge Today’s Software Engineers to Reinvent the Web

#110

> “That utopian leveling of society, the reinvention of the systems of debate and government—what happened to that?” Only speaking personally, what happened for me was that I noticed that these utopian online communities that we reinvented are not really particularly wonderful because a lot of the loudest people in such communities are really nasty people with really nasty things to say. On the other hand, the intern…

Well, even the hackers post their blog posts nowadays to centralized networks. Why every article has to be on medium.com - I have no idea - but it's very similar pattern the regular users of Internet have.

Well, speaking only for myself, I've thought about leaving medium several times but never bothered because:

• I don't want an article that goes viral to give me huge bills or crush a tiny server. I want automatic scaling.

• I don't want to run or upgrade a web stack. I have a few Linux VPS' and frankly they're painful to maintain. I don't have the time or energy to do this unpaid anymore. If Linux was a better OS maybe this'd be less painful.

• It's free

• They have a WYSIWYG editor that's OK (but merely OK, it's not great). Too many blog platforms want me to write in markdown or whatever.

• If I left Medium I'd lose all the followers who get notified when I write a new blog.

• There is no real value to me in doing so except maybe getting a few more features.

The main thing keeping me there right now is inertia and disinterest in self hosting.

Post reply on HN