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Advanced programming languages (2009)

matt.might.net

71–80 of 208 posts

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#71
post #64
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of course, it is not "untyped". It is dynamically typed.

PL theorists generally talk about whether or not syntactic terms (as opposed to runtime values) have types. Scheme is untyped by that definition.

PL theorists - from what I saw, not being one - prefer the term "unityped". It's not true that there are no (static!) types - there is a single, unnamed type which contains all possible values.

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#72
What's up with functional languages nowadays? The exists since the dawn of humanity, but they are getting very trendy lately. Is it just my perception? Is it a HN thing? (I've been a reader for just some months)

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#73
post #51

I can't seriously read an article that promotes Scheme over any other languages. We had a class in university and everybody hated it. How can you write complex program with so many parenthesis?

Using a good editor helps a lot. Actually I usually do not understand how can people write Java. People are different and different things seem logical or useful for different people. If you are hung up on syntax problems you probably haven't used different languages yet. After a while it gets less and less relevant.

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#74
post #12

This post is very fortuitous for me. I've been looking to learn a functional language and I had more or less narrowed my options to Haskell, OCaml and Scala. I liked the breakdown between these languages and the resources. Can anyone who programs in Haskell or OCaml regularly tell me the current state of standard and third party library support? I'm very attracted to Scala because it has JVM support, which sounds fan…

I can recommend Scala: - It is mature and rock-solid, but still manages to evolve, fix issues and simplify/remove features. Most other languages are purely additive, meaning you will have to carry on all the baggage since the languages' inception. - It is a language which is interested in identifying the best way to solve common programming issues and spares you with all this ideological "OOP/FP is bad" bullshit. - I…

I am so freaking excited about Scala Native. I haven't been so genuinely excited and enthusiastic about something for such a long time, but Scala Native is so awesome.

I feel like turning Scala into a cross-platform language is the best idea possible. I'd love to see Scala someday be able to just dump out WebAssembly, or JVM bytecode, or LLVM IR, or whatever the next "hip" format is, while keeping the language the same.

I also find it shocking how hard people are pushing Typescript when Scala.js exists. Why would you ever subject yourself to TS?!?!

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#75
post #12

This post is very fortuitous for me. I've been looking to learn a functional language and I had more or less narrowed my options to Haskell, OCaml and Scala. I liked the breakdown between these languages and the resources. Can anyone who programs in Haskell or OCaml regularly tell me the current state of standard and third party library support? I'm very attracted to Scala because it has JVM support, which sounds fan…

I can recommend Scala: - It is mature and rock-solid, but still manages to evolve, fix issues and simplify/remove features. Most other languages are purely additive, meaning you will have to carry on all the baggage since the languages' inception. - It is a language which is interested in identifying the best way to solve common programming issues and spares you with all this ideological "OOP/FP is bad" bullshit. - I…

I am not sure about tooling. Do you consider SBT part of tooling? In that case I do not understand how can you say best. SBT is good enough at its finest.

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#76
post #72

What's up with functional languages nowadays? The exists since the dawn of humanity, but they are getting very trendy lately. Is it just my perception? Is it a HN thing? (I've been a reader for just some months)

Reasonability. In an age where billion dollar companies are gutted by 16yo hackers on a monthly basis, it's worth the effort to build strong, secure systems that can be formally reasoned about.

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#77
post #72

What's up with functional languages nowadays? The exists since the dawn of humanity, but they are getting very trendy lately. Is it just my perception? Is it a HN thing? (I've been a reader for just some months)

2 things IMO

- There's a long running pendulum that swings back and forth from FP. We're currently in an FP cycle.

- Current mainstream computing puts a heavier emphasis on concurrency and distributed computing. FP's focus on immutability and referential transparency makes it easier to reason about these.

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#78
post #72

What's up with functional languages nowadays? The exists since the dawn of humanity, but they are getting very trendy lately. Is it just my perception? Is it a HN thing? (I've been a reader for just some months)

The usual explanation is that they're good for safe parallelism on multicores. Which are everywhere now - even phones.

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#79
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web based is because JSON is always easier with dynamic types. Rapid prototyping is because it requires less explicit up front design due to dynamic types. Artificial Intelligence is because metaprogramming is easier in homoiconic languages.

Your first two points are also met by optionally typed languages.

Oh yeah, because those are a dime a dozen and available almost everywhere! /s

Re: Advanced programming languages (2009)

#80
post #72

What's up with functional languages nowadays? The exists since the dawn of humanity, but they are getting very trendy lately. Is it just my perception? Is it a HN thing? (I've been a reader for just some months)

A quick idea, as systems have become more complex, needing more threading and such to perform at scale, I think many developers are reaching for functional programming techniques to make the code easier to reason about.

I'm not a pure functionalist, but I recognize some nice things: immutable by default, composition instead of inheritance, chained operations/monads.

I've personally become a huge fan of Rust, while this isn't a pure functional language, it definitely inherits a lot from them, but it also doesn't force FP on you.

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