Earlier quoted context omitted.
lucrative is also a relative term I'm familiar with the sum($)/sum(hours) =< minimum wage arguments. We're also talking about the top 1% of 1% of wage earners in their age bracket. You might be able to get there via other means with better quality-of-life, but by all means -- absolute or relative -- $160K/year base + bonus is lucrative.
There is no way that $195k ($180k + $15k) is the top 1bps of wage earners at 26. That's pretty comparable to, if not less than, what you could expect in tech at that age. This is ignoring finance, small business owners, etc.
An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
91–100 of 146 posts
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#92It seems that the story is a that a once upwards spiral is now spiraling downwards, and people and institutions must adjust. At one point in time, law was lucrative, and there were not enough lawyers. Schools responded by growing in size and in tuition. Students could justify the loans because there was a high chance that the "investment" would pay off. Fast forward a few decades and law as an industry is contracting…
The size of the legal market is the same as it was in 1990, and so is law school enrollment. There was a spike in both legal demand and enrollment in the aughts, but the ratio of work to graduates isn't much different now than it was in the 1980s and 1990s. What's different now is not the market. Folks at Valparaiso were never getting recruited into high-paying jobs. What's different now is the extreme amounts of deb…
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#93I still think certain professional careers will always exist for the most passionate and high quality candidates (or, alas, the best connected).
Regarding the best connected category -- lawyers eventually move up to become partners, who are rainmakers. Their job is to bring in deals and manage the client relationship, rather than drafting the paperwork. The work is very different from that of the associate level. WSGR takes a mix of top 5 law school grads as well as Santa Clara law school grads. The latter is seen as having a better local network through thei…
Disclaimer: SCU law grad
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
A 25% increase in 10 years is not double digit inflation / year. It's around 2% / year.
Those figures were already adjusted for inflation (it says 2016 dollars)
Also, you can still get a degree for under 20k/year http://www.thebestschools.org/blog/2011/11/18/10-affordable-... at many public law schools.
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
And this is what's wrong with the law profession generally. It's seen as "lucrative" instead of as "a calling." No modern law school will ever create an Oliver Wendell Holmes or inspire a fictional Atticus Finch.
Not true: many lawyers work entire careers in the human rights field. Many modern law schools have produced these types of lawyers. It's just not as glamorous as what people have in mind for a lawyer, and thus not as publicized.
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#96Why are lawsuits so expensive if there are so many broke lawyers aching for a job? It seems like a company could pay them a middling salary of $70k/year to handle ongoing lawsuits, rather than the $300-$700/hour that other lawyers demand. Obviously not for your big Oracle vs. Google lawsuits or where the entire company is riding on it, but for anything less than that. For example, every public company gets sued by op…
The cheaper fields of law pretty much do that. Personal injury, traffic and dui, immigration, insurance defense etc. will take broke lawyers and pay them shit. They bill out at ~200 dollars an hour, but don't collect anywhere near 40 hours a week. The associates are getting paid in the 50k a year range.
There are good reasons most companies don't try to do litigation in house. Litigation comes and goes and isn't steady. I'm defending a medium sized company on a patent case. But they have a patent case maybe 2-3 times a decade. During certain parts of the case we'll need 2-3 associates working full time. But a year ago they had no need for even one patent litigator.
Plus certain parts of the case are hard to handle with in house lawyers. They might be forbidden to see certain confidential documents.
Another big difference is that law is specialized. A guy who does DUI defense doesn't have the slightest idea how to do a patent troll case. And a patent lawyer can't do a DUI case. Once you gain that experience you aren't a broke lawyer anymore.
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#97Kids are being advised by parents to get an expensive degree because when they were growing up that's how you made it. That's not how it is anymore. There's no free pass to success, no check all these boxes and then you've made it. You gotta use your brain early on, figure it out for yourself, because ultimately you're going to be the one having to live with the consequences of how you've spent your youth. I think th…
>That's not how it is anymore. There's no free pass to success, no check all these boxes and then you've made it. You gotta use your brain early on, figure it out for yourself, because ultimately you're going to be the one having to live with the consequences of how you've spent your youth. To be fair, the other pillar of "expensive degree leading to lucrative, high prestige career", medicine, is still doing well. As…
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand this, either. If there is a glut of lawyers, why are their rates so high?
People don't hire lawyers without real-world experience. The supply of lawyers with experience is much smaller than the supply of JDs, because there are only so many opportunities to file briefing or argue in court.
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#99Why are lawsuits so expensive if there are so many broke lawyers aching for a job? It seems like a company could pay them a middling salary of $70k/year to handle ongoing lawsuits, rather than the $300-$700/hour that other lawyers demand. Obviously not for your big Oracle vs. Google lawsuits or where the entire company is riding on it, but for anything less than that. For example, every public company gets sued by op…
Lawyers out of law school have a pretty hard time practicing on their own. A lot of these broke lawyers never get a substantive job and never really become lawyers. You can hire these people but you need someone to manage and train them. You need an expert. The cheaper fields of law pretty much do that. Personal injury, traffic and dui, immigration, insurance defense etc. will take broke lawyers and pay them shit. Th…
so basically you're saying they are broke because their education isn't actually adequate for the sort of work they would be undertaking.
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#100Blame the schools if you want, but I went to law school in the US and I blame the students. Once upon a time the typical law student had a useful undergrad degree. The JD was something valuable over and above the undergrad. But today's typical law student has spent the last four or five years carefully honing their undergrad to maximize GPA. Law school was always the goal and so everything else, everything useful, wa…