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China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

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Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#131

Post by nadezhda18 »

kweks wrote: post #29

I was there literally three days ago. The place is nothing short of breathtaking. Nestled at 4200km, it was a three day motorbike ride from Chengdu. Even at its foothills, you have no concept of the scale of the town hiding in the hills. This will truly be a tragic loss - the town is much more than the 'slum' it is represented as - it's arguably the most important Buddhist learning institution in the world.. Photos f…

thanks for the pictures,t they are amazing! So is the place... I hope China will revert its decision, it would be incredibly sad to loose this :(((

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#132

Post by Udik »

golergka wrote: post #113
Udik wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the meantime keep grabbing somebody else's land. You're a man of high principles, indeed.

You mean like Sinai and Gaza?

Let's talk seriously. Israel withdrew from Sinai and dismantled a few settlements in in the Gaza strip. It didn't relinquish its full control over Gaza's borders, air space and maritime space (which means, in fact, on the whole Gaza economy) such that Gaza is still considered by the UN an occupied territory.

In the meanwhile, Israel keeps expanding its illegal colonies in a foreign territory, the West Bank, contravening to the international law. It also unilaterally annexed the whole city of Jerusalem, also contrary to international law. And it unilaterally annexed the Golan Heights, demolishing over a hundred Syrian villages and giving the land to Israeli settlers, also against the international law (as was recently reaffirmed by the UN Security Council).

As of 2016, 750000 Israelis, about 10% of the whole population of Israel, lives in illegally occupied territories. This number has been steadily growing for the past 60 years.

Let me clarify the concept if these numbers seem a bit abstract. Israel is stealing houses and fields and destroying villages and driving out native populations, by economic and military oppression, in a quest for lebensraum for its own population. This is completely unacceptable by any modern western standard.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#133

Post by paavokoya »

andy_ppp wrote: post #128

I do not understand the cowardice and fear the Chinese government seem to have of a small buddhist settlement in the middle of nowhere high up in the mountains of Tibet... It looks like they feel the opposite of a superpower and that a few buddhist monks might threaten them so much they have to destroy them. It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories.

>It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories.

Pretty insulated thinking there.. Try traveling to Indian reservations or gentrified urban areas.. Or perhaps research Japanese internment camps in WW2. Or hell even look up Guantanamo Bay today. Superpowers flexing their muscle on a "threatening few" is extremely common.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#135

Post by anexprogrammer »

lotu wrote: post #6
mhuffman wrote: post #4

Wow! It is amazing that we do not consider this a human rights violation. Oh well, gotta keep them prices low at Walmart!

What are you proposing we do? Cut off trade with China? Intervene militarily? Write a strongly worded letter?

> Cut off trade with China

Why not? Prices would rise marginally if at all. There'd be some supply issues for a while.

It was ok to sanction Iran, Iraq and South Africa and so on but not now in this globalised world? We put up with any old abuse from Israel and China because they're approved in some way?

I'm no diplomat, but there should be some consequences of significance.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#136

Post by adventured »

paavokoya wrote: post #133
andy_ppp wrote: post #128

I do not understand the cowardice and fear the Chinese government seem to have of a small buddhist settlement in the middle of nowhere high up in the mountains of Tibet... It looks like they feel the opposite of a superpower and that a few buddhist monks might threaten them so much they have to destroy them. It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories.

>It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories. Pretty insulated thinking there.. Try traveling to Indian reservations or gentrified urban areas.. Or perhaps research Japanese internment camps in WW2. Or hell even look up Guantanamo Bay today. Superpowers flexing their muscle on a "threatening few" is extremely common.

What do those examples have to do with the parent not understanding the Chinese Government's cowardice and fear?

I don't regard it as insulated thinking at all. It makes perfect sense to be bewildered by such a disgusting display of cowardice and irrational fear by China.

Someone on a public forum says: X nation is doing a bad thing; one of the responses inevitably is: yeah but the US did a bad thing. There should be a 'law' named for that attempted topic distraction in public forums.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#137

Post by munin »

adventured wrote: post #136
paavokoya wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories. Pretty insulated thinking there.. Try traveling to Indian reservations or gentrified urban areas.. Or perhaps research Japanese internment camps in WW2. Or hell even look up Guantanamo Bay today. Superpowers flexing their muscle on a "threatening few" is extremely common.

What do those examples have to do with the parent not understanding the Chinese Government's cowardice and fear? I don't regard it as insulated thinking at all. It makes perfect sense to be bewildered by such a disgusting display of cowardice and irrational fear by China. Someone on a public forum says: X nation is doing a bad thing; one of the responses inevitably is: yeah but the US did a bad thing. There should be…

> There should be a 'law' named for that attempted topic distraction in public forums.

there kind of is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#138

Post by adventured »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #135
lotu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you proposing we do? Cut off trade with China? Intervene militarily? Write a strongly worded letter?

> Cut off trade with China Why not? Prices would rise marginally if at all. There'd be some supply issues for a while. It was ok to sanction Iran, Iraq and South Africa and so on but not now in this globalised world? We put up with any old abuse from Israel and China because they're approved in some way? I'm no diplomat, but there should be some consequences of significance.

Prices would rise significantly and it would create a very large black market. There would be supply issues for more than a decade. The US does half a trillion dollars worth of importing from China. Every major US retailer is designed around imports from China. Most of that is relatively low priced consumer goods. Where do you plan to buy decently priced microwaves, by the millions, that aren't made in China? That doesn't exist, it would take years to bring that production on-line. The same is true of television sets. Hell, just about anything you can name that is mass consumer oriented. The disruption to supply would destroy most US retailers instantly. Walmart and Amazon, both suddenly lacking 3/4 of their inventory, would go bankrupt in a matter of months. Walmart would have to fire upwards of two million low income workers that have no possible replacement jobs.

It would harm the bottom 50% in the US the most. That's enough reason to look at other options first.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#139

Post by bmmayer1 »

paavokoya wrote: post #133
andy_ppp wrote: post #128

I do not understand the cowardice and fear the Chinese government seem to have of a small buddhist settlement in the middle of nowhere high up in the mountains of Tibet... It looks like they feel the opposite of a superpower and that a few buddhist monks might threaten them so much they have to destroy them. It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories.

>It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories. Pretty insulated thinking there.. Try traveling to Indian reservations or gentrified urban areas.. Or perhaps research Japanese internment camps in WW2. Or hell even look up Guantanamo Bay today. Superpowers flexing their muscle on a "threatening few" is extremely common.

Ah, the old 'Tu quoque' fallacy. Even so, let's examine some of these claims a bit:

> Indian reservations

Yes, the state of the modern Indian reservation is tragic, but doesn't that have to more to do with too much government assistance[1][2] rather than government stepping in to destroy?

> gentrified urban areas

You're not trying to suggest that living in a neighborhood that's getting nicer and more expensive is somehow akin to the government coming in and demolishing the whole city block are you?

> Japanese internment camps in WW2

Well taken point, and a black mark on the history of the US government to be sure. But there's much to be said about the state of exception in wartime[3] and it seems unfair to compare measures taken during unprecedented war with China's actions during unprecedented peace.

> Guantanamo Bay

Yeah, this is a shame. But hardly seems comparable, considering the Chinese are literally putting thousands of families out of homes and seeking to destroy an entire religious minority, and at best Guantanamo Bay is an infringement on the civil liberties of a relative handful of individuals. Not that it's right, but it certainly is at the top of a long slippery slope on which China is currently racing to the bottom.

andy_ppp's comment is apt...we have problems, but we still are far more free than almost anywhere else. And it isn't insulated thinking at all; Americans are objectively freer than the Chinese by almost any metric.[4]

[1]http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/03/13/5-ways-the-g... [2]https://mises.org/library/native-american-reservations-%E2%8... [3]http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=23630 [4]http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#140

Post by mac01021 »

afandian wrote: post #63
mac01021 wrote: post #61

I didn't notice in the article any mention of why there is a population limit set for this town. Is it explicitly a measure taken to limit solidarity in a religious/ethnic minority? Is there a concern about the food supply?

Why does any genocide happen?

Normally the people instigating it give a reason. I'm asking what reason has been given by the PRC in this case.

Also, it's not clear to me that this qualifies as genocide.

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