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China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

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Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#31

Post by dave2000 »

auganov wrote: post #27
bhouston wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China : Tibet :: Israel : Palestine, they are analogous in many ways. The human rights groups talk about the problems, we recognize it is bad, the weaker ethnic community suffers and is oppressed, the more powerful ethnic group makes slow but steady progress in exerting its wishes, and no real changes are effected by the international community.

Isn't that the nature of almost every conflict with an ethnic context? If there's no clear weaker and stronger you usually end up with two independent states. The way Tibet was Incorporated into China, the nature of the Tibetan resistance, the way China governs Tibet, the reason China wants Tibet, the reason China represses Tibetans are all very very different from what's happening in Judea and Samaria. The Israeli A…

No, it's perfectly meaningful to talk about Israel/Palestine - and by extension the US - when criticizing actions by China. Otherwise you end up with the same narrative you get in pretty much every media outlet in the world; whatever the US does is good, no terrorism or support for murderous dictators there (cough south america..cuba...saudi arabia..iran...iraq...indonesia etc etc etc ), and whatever China does is bad.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#32

Post by eggy »

This will bring the Free Tibet movement to the front again for the next POTUS.

I am sure China will put the 'safety' issue forward, and deflect the independence movement. Remember the earthquake of May 12, 2008 in Sichuan province, China, where over 68,000 people died, and more went missing. The focus in the media was on the houses not being up to standard building codes.

The earthquake in Nepal in 2015 surely affected Tibet too, but information was controlled by China, so the numbers are questionable. Larung Gar is a sprawl of houses for monks, worshipers, students and visitors that could be seen as a potential earthquake hazard area as spun by Chinese media.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#33

Post by dave2000 »

GantzGraf wrote: post #25
icebraining wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Diplomacy? Increased recognition of Tibetan leaders and activists, sending diplomatic missions to problematic spots, etc. It would also not hurt to stop with the constant demonization of "China" as a whole, which just serves to downplay criticism as bigotry.

Obama just this week met with the Dalai Lama in direct contravention of China's wishes.

And Obama criticizes Israel sometimes by stating that the murder of thousands of civilians or the expansion of illegal settlements are "unneccesary" or "not helpful to peace" too, but it's just window dressing and not to be taken seriously. Certainly it makes no difference to the outcome whatsoever, and never will.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#34

Post by gumby »

sintaxi wrote: post #19
reustle wrote: post #7

Not saying this is right, but it sounds like the city exceeded their legal cap of 5k people? So it doesn't sound like it's a total surprise to them. Am I reading it wrong?

Under what legal authority does that cap exist?

China is the colonial power; that's all the authority required.

Note that China did the same to the Han majority as well, for example in the destruction of the Hutongs in the major cities such Beijing this century, not to mention the destruction of the temples 70 years ago during the communist revolution.

When I read this context-free article all I could think of was Henry VIII's destruction and confiscation of the monasteries. Now it's just a historical aspect of a larger movement.

This feels tragic to me, but honestly it's hard to tell if it even is or not from that one article.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#35

Post by snnn »

reustle wrote: post #7

Not saying this is right, but it sounds like the city exceeded their legal cap of 5k people? So it doesn't sound like it's a total surprise to them. Am I reading it wrong?

I partially agree with you. I've been there at last year. It is far from cites, about 10 hours driving to the nearest airport. When I got there, there were more than 20k people lived in the small valley, without TV/clean water/electricity. Most houses are made from wood. If there is a fire, I can't imagine how many people would die.

However, the gov do not give them another place to live and study. It is not a city or town, it is a college. Most people are studying at there. The highest degree is Kanbo. People need 15-20 years to get this.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#36

Post by auganov »

bhouston wrote: post #30
auganov wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the nature of almost every conflict with an ethnic context? If there's no clear weaker and stronger you usually end up with two independent states. The way Tibet was Incorporated into China, the nature of the Tibetan resistance, the way China governs Tibet, the reason China wants Tibet, the reason China represses Tibetans are all very very different from what's happening in Judea and Samaria. The Israeli A…

auganov wrote: > Isn't that the nature of almost every conflict with an ethnic context? If there's no clear weaker and stronger you usually end up with two independent states. Your statement is sort of weird in the above. It presupposes that subjugation of a weaker ethnic group by a more powerful ethnic group is acceptable -- that is how these conflicts are resolved. It is counter to the idea of universal human right…

No. My point was/is:

  1. Stronger vs Weaker is a common pattern in such conflicts.
  2. Tibet vs China :: Palestine/Arab states vs Israel differ in almost every other feature.
  3. There's places in the world that better mimic the Tibetan situation.
  4. Hence the analogy isn't very good.
I did not make any moral judgments.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#37

Post by golergka »

bhouston wrote: post #20
mhuffman wrote: post #4

Wow! It is amazing that we do not consider this a human rights violation. Oh well, gotta keep them prices low at Walmart!

China : Tibet :: Israel : Palestine, they are analogous in many ways. The human rights groups talk about the problems, we recognize it is bad, the weaker ethnic community suffers and is oppressed, the more powerful ethnic group makes slow but steady progress in exerting its wishes, and no real changes are effected by the international community.

How many terror acts do tibetian supporters commit on an average month in China?

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#38

Post by rahimnathwani »

auganov wrote: post #27
bhouston wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China : Tibet :: Israel : Palestine, they are analogous in many ways. The human rights groups talk about the problems, we recognize it is bad, the weaker ethnic community suffers and is oppressed, the more powerful ethnic group makes slow but steady progress in exerting its wishes, and no real changes are effected by the international community.

Isn't that the nature of almost every conflict with an ethnic context? If there's no clear weaker and stronger you usually end up with two independent states. The way Tibet was Incorporated into China, the nature of the Tibetan resistance, the way China governs Tibet, the reason China wants Tibet, the reason China represses Tibetans are all very very different from what's happening in Judea and Samaria. The Israeli A…

What are these differences?

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#39

Post by [deleted] »

auganov wrote: post #36
bhouston wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

auganov wrote: > Isn't that the nature of almost every conflict with an ethnic context? If there's no clear weaker and stronger you usually end up with two independent states. Your statement is sort of weird in the above. It presupposes that subjugation of a weaker ethnic group by a more powerful ethnic group is acceptable -- that is how these conflicts are resolved. It is counter to the idea of universal human right…

No. My point was/is: 1. Stronger vs Weaker is a common pattern in such conflicts. 2. Tibet vs China :: Palestine/Arab states vs Israel differ in almost every other feature. 3. There's places in the world that better mimic the Tibetan situation. 4. Hence the analogy isn't very good. I did not make any moral judgments.

[deleted]

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#40

Post by ohashi »

GantzGraf wrote: post #25
icebraining wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Diplomacy? Increased recognition of Tibetan leaders and activists, sending diplomatic missions to problematic spots, etc. It would also not hurt to stop with the constant demonization of "China" as a whole, which just serves to downplay criticism as bigotry.

Obama just this week met with the Dalai Lama in direct contravention of China's wishes.

Good thing I didn't elect a Chinese government in the US.
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