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Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

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101–110 of 131 posts

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#101
post #80
post #47

I know HN hate anecdotal stories, but here goes anyways. 6 months ago, despite my regular exercise routine, I was about 20 pounds over my college weight and prediabetic. Instead of following my doctor’s recommendations and going on Metformin, I cut all nearly sugars out of my diet and replaced it with sucralose, fat, and fiber. Now, exactly 5 lbs sugar equivalent of sucralose later, and I’m back to my college weight.…

If I'm reading you correctly, you eat nearly a pound of sugar per month? And your doctor recommended something called "Metformin" instead of saying "don't eat so much sugar"? Maybe you need a new doctor to go along with your new sweetener =)

>you eat nearly a pound of sugar per month?

You don't?

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#102
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I hate the idea of artificial sweeteners Don't take this as a personal attack on your opinion, but I just don't understand this. The distinction that we make between artificial chemicals and natural chemicals seems to be whether it was invented by humans or invented by evolution. That's a fine distinction to make, but why are human invented chemicals seen as the _worse_ of the two? When evolution invents a ch…

I think it comes down to trust. We're part of nature, created by it and in it. The naturally created chemicals we deal with have been around for longer than we have. We have generations of people who have tested them for both short-term and long-term effects. When things previously thought safe start to harm us, it's usually because of changes in processing, like adding sugar to everything. Human-created chemicals ar…

I can certainly see that, especially the corrupt companies side of things. But the argument doesn't make sense for anyone over 30 years old. Pre-industrial humans had a lifespan of about 30-50 years (30 years in-city, 50 years outside of city for most all of human history). Those are the humans who vetted all these natural chemicals; people who died at 30. If you're over 30, you're in unknown territory when it comes to natural chemicals.

Human derived chemicals and engineering have given us over 40 extra years of life. That's more than double our previous lifespans. So on the one hand you can trust nature and live for 30 years (which would mean most everyone on HN is either now dead or getting ready to die), or you can trust humans and live for 70 years. That, to me, is clear evidence that despite the rare incidences of human negligence and corruption our batting average far exceeds evolution's.

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#103
post #37

It's good to see that Splenda isn't the potential toxic substance we began to wonder it was, but I agree that it tastes icky. That said, I wonder why Stevia isn't considered to sweeten drinks? It's very sweet, it's natural like sugar (meaning it's not synthetic or lab-grown), it also has zero calories, and it doesn't taste icky!

opium (for heroine) and coca (used for cocaine) are also natural. Being natural != being healthy.

But opium and cocaine have strong medicinal qualities.

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#104

Potentially interesting article that gives up half-way through at the most interesting part to digress into an anti-anti-synthetic chemical rant. Not that I'm against that, but I was really intrigued to learn why a chemical that has the properties of being reactive isn't reactive. The article just says that your body doesn't break it down. What does digestion have to do with it? If a molecule is reactive, then its re…

I'm not sure. I'm not a chemist, so I went and looked up a table of bond energies to see whether chlorohydrocarbons should actually be more reactive than the corresponding hydrocarbons, and it seems like the answer is actually yes, because the bond-dissociation energy isn't determined purely in isolation; the rest of the molecule affects it. A Cl-CH₃ bond has an energy of 339 kJ/mol, while the H-CH₃ bond has an energy of 431 kJ/mol, and the outrageously stable F-CH₃ is 452 kJ/mol. In isolation, the C-Cl bond has an energy of some 397 kJ/mol, while C-H is only 337 kJ/mol.

I think typically the issue with reactive molecules is not that they react within the digestive system — if they're reactive enough to do that, then they may burn your mouth or even stomach, but they're unlikely to make it to your intestines without reacting with the rest of your food. The issue is typically that, if they get absorbed into your bloodstream, they can find their way to all parts of your body, and then wreak havoc on the one or a few particular molecules they react with. So apparently sucralose doesn't get absorbed into your bloodstream, and it's not so reactive that you get chemical burns, so it's harmless. And it doesn't get absorbed because it doesn't react with sucrase (or invertase), maybe because the big chlorine atoms bumping around there result in steric hindrance that keeps it from binding to the enzyme properly.

As for insecticides and flame retardants, there is a large family of organochloride insecticides (including DDT), and organohalogens are common flame retardants, including the famous PCBs, but also things like HBCD. Both DDT and PCBs are notable not for being reactive but for being unreactive.

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#105

It's good to see that Splenda isn't the potential toxic substance we began to wonder it was, but I agree that it tastes icky. That said, I wonder why Stevia isn't considered to sweeten drinks? It's very sweet, it's natural like sugar (meaning it's not synthetic or lab-grown), it also has zero calories, and it doesn't taste icky!

Because you're wrong. Stevia tastes nasty, like some kind of nasty unsweetened licorice or something. And they do use it to sweeten drinks. Go to any higher-end grocery store and you'll find weird-brand drinks with it, for weirdos like you who apparently can't taste the ick. What does cilantro taste like to you? To some people, it tastes like soap, to others it doesn't. There's a gene which controls this.

I wonder if the same can be said about sugar, where some people taste it as nice and others think it's too sweet or gross.

There are various mixes and types of stevia out there. You should find the varieties.

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#106
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please just be cautious not to fall into the trap of the 'vital principle'[1]. If you had a bottle of L-ascorbic acid ("vitamin C") in your right hand synthesized in a laboratory and a bottle of L-ascorbic acid in your left extracted from rose hips, you'd agree that except for making arguments about impurities (certainly as likely in the 'natural' extract) that the molecules are identical in every sense in both cases…

Is vitalism actually discredited though? Sure, urea & synthetic urea are chemically the same and behave identically in a chemical sense — but wouldn't a vitalist argue that there's more than just chemistry at play? The problem with vitalism is that it's unfalsifiable; that doesn't mean that it's wrong, simply that science doesn't have the ability to refute it.

This reminds me of a student's comment: "oh but that's only true within the confines of logic". That is, i'm sure a 'vitalist' would argue: "oh that's just chemistry, what of beyond chemistry?" to which i'd be forced to ask: are we talking about concepts where science isn't accepted? isn't that the realm of spiritualism? ("this protein is imbued with an ineffable living essence; whereas the one you synthesized must necessarily lack it") There are certainly folks who believe that things go on in a living system's metabolism which transcend chemistry, but on that point we part ways and i wish you well. and/or for me vitalism was forever falsified when a synthetic molecule and a 'natural' molecule co-crystallized.

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#107
post #47

I know HN hate anecdotal stories, but here goes anyways. 6 months ago, despite my regular exercise routine, I was about 20 pounds over my college weight and prediabetic. Instead of following my doctor’s recommendations and going on Metformin, I cut all nearly sugars out of my diet and replaced it with sucralose, fat, and fiber. Now, exactly 5 lbs sugar equivalent of sucralose later, and I’m back to my college weight.…

But why would you use sucralose/sweetener at all?

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#108
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes down to trust. We're part of nature, created by it and in it. The naturally created chemicals we deal with have been around for longer than we have. We have generations of people who have tested them for both short-term and long-term effects. When things previously thought safe start to harm us, it's usually because of changes in processing, like adding sugar to everything. Human-created chemicals ar…

I can certainly see that, especially the corrupt companies side of things. But the argument doesn't make sense for anyone over 30 years old. Pre-industrial humans had a lifespan of about 30-50 years (30 years in-city, 50 years outside of city for most all of human history). Those are the humans who vetted all these natural chemicals; people who died at 30. If you're over 30, you're in unknown territory when it comes…

> Human derived chemicals and engineering have given us over 40 extra years of life.

Yeah well to some degree of participation.. chiefly we have reduced maternal death rate & early childhood mortality; (re)discovered/refined/improved-upon/better-understood what compounds at what dosage made traditional/herbal/ancient antiseptic/antibiotic/antifungal tinctures actually work and how to turn them into more reliable pharmaceuticals, developed ever better understanding of nourishment and hygiene and surgery, and figured out intravenous saline/nutrient infusions.

Those are the major contributors to "moderns' longer lives", and any pre-moderns who managed to circumvent all the above health hazards lived pretty much almost as long as us today (and was greatly revered admired respected and consulted for it by all). "Human derived chemicals and engineering" clearly contributed quite a bit here, no argument. But it's not like some chemists churned out a formula that added 40 additional years to an otherwise-strictly-30-year-lifespan just-like-that.

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#109
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes down to trust. We're part of nature, created by it and in it. The naturally created chemicals we deal with have been around for longer than we have. We have generations of people who have tested them for both short-term and long-term effects. When things previously thought safe start to harm us, it's usually because of changes in processing, like adding sugar to everything. Human-created chemicals ar…

I can certainly see that, especially the corrupt companies side of things. But the argument doesn't make sense for anyone over 30 years old. Pre-industrial humans had a lifespan of about 30-50 years (30 years in-city, 50 years outside of city for most all of human history). Those are the humans who vetted all these natural chemicals; people who died at 30. If you're over 30, you're in unknown territory when it comes…

For starters, the "people lived shorter lives long ago" argument is based on high percentages of infant mortality. While quality of life wasn't always great, the idea that folks only lived to 30 or 40 is pretty easily demonstrated to be false.

Re: Chemists Were Wrong About Splenda

#110

I don't consume sucralose if I can avoid - not because I believe it's toxic, but because I've observed that my short-term memory is significantly deteriorated after consuming it. It might be the placebo effect, but I'm fairly confident it's not. Placebo effect or not, it has a discernible impact on my cognitive ability, so I avoid it.

I get short-term headaches from aspartame myself.

I don't know exactly why - but I've read that drinking artificial sweeteners may trick the body into anticipating an energetic food causing it to release insulin. The resulting mild hypoglycemia causes headaches.

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