Is it also possible that the men are usually being more aggressive towards getting more interesting work?
After all, in their example the girls could've just told the guys no and came to an agreement instead of just accepting their lot.
Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
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Re: Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
#12I think using the word 'fun' in this title is demeaning and misleading. Women aren't looking for fun, they're looking for meaningful, interesting work and are being denied it. (Obviously not all women, etc. etc.)
I know a very talented woman with more experience and talent than her teammates who constantly deals with the interesting work being given to men instead of her. In meetings men look to the other men for opinions instead of her, even when she's leading the meeting. Partly it's because corporate environments prefer bluster to quieter expertise but the answer shouldn't be to tell women to be bigger blowhards than the men in order to get to do interesting stuff.
Re: Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
#13I question the method of this "study". I don't think it's a leap to say 40 undergrads writing in their journals is anecdote.
Not every study is a double-blind random sample with statistical modeling and error bars.
Which also means not every study should be used to project its results over an entire population.
Re: Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
#14I question the method of this "study". I don't think it's a leap to say 40 undergrads writing in their journals is anecdote.
It's a very common methodology and it's hard to do sociological studies any other way really. They can't follow subjects around with cameras or something without creating a fake environment.
Re: Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
#15Couldn't this come down more to men being conditioned to be more assertive and women being conditioned to de-escalate?
Or rather, men just by nature being more assertive.
Re: Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
#16I just heard another first hand account of a female computer science masters candidate dropping out shortly before completion due to sexual harassment from her supervisor and no support on the matter from the University. Interesting that the study focuses on the "fun" aspect while the journals themselves highlight unwanted advances and "creepiness" from males. There are many factors keeping women out of computer scie…
If that was the only diary entry that mentioned creepiness or anything close to sexual harassment, then what they "focus on" makes total sense. Their quoting that passage at most suggests that those two problems are flips sides of the same coin.
Re: Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
#17Re: Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
#18Wow, the comments so far are so disappointing. (When I wrote this they are all completely dismissive of this study.)
The comments on any HN thread about barriers to gender equity in software engineering illustrate the barriers to gender equity in software engineering.
Re: Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
#19I just heard another first hand account of a female computer science masters candidate dropping out shortly before completion due to sexual harassment from her supervisor and no support on the matter from the University. Interesting that the study focuses on the "fun" aspect while the journals themselves highlight unwanted advances and "creepiness" from males. There are many factors keeping women out of computer scie…
Unless your first hand account involves an actual rape, please leave the term 'rape culture' to situations involving actual rape. The linked story certainly didn't invoke any mentions of rapes occurring - why dilute a real problem with unrelated 'creepiness'?
Secondly, females complaining about 'creepiness' is a difficult problem to quantify or solve, as females find attention from unattractive males 'creepy' regardless of their actual intentions.
Re: Are women exiting engineering because men get the challenging assignments?
#20I think using the word 'fun' in this title is demeaning and misleading. Women aren't looking for fun, they're looking for meaningful, interesting work and are being denied it. (Obviously not all women, etc. etc.) I know a very talented woman with more experience and talent than her teammates who constantly deals with the interesting work being given to men instead of her. In meetings men look to the other men for opi…
I don't think it's demeaning and misleading. Professionals--men and women--generally consider "meaningful, interesting work" to be the "fun" part of their jobs.