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Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#231

Post by FuNe »

Let it roll.

Few in the industrialized world if anyone really gives a shite (1). Lots of well-fed educated westerners would lose sleep if "free" economy is coughing but don't really care about this. Run away capitalism creating the problem in the first place is also -ehm- the reason why mostly leftists seem to get it. Not that this helps. It just makes the whole thing even more partizan.

Sad truth is the guys that are really screwed (so far and at the foreseeable future) by this are not exactly HN commentators. To them this might mean drought and death next year but to us -fat cats- this apparently means a danger to economic development. We simply do not have our asses on the line (yet) - which is why we can talk this to death but do _nothing_ to really prevent it. We might wake up when we start losing relatives due to 50C heat waves. Who knows.

And even then, if we get it, who would actually do something? We -at a global scale- have been terrible at resolving much simpler crises. Want an example? Ebola virus was stopped last minute. Zika virus is on the loose and is gonna get worse (because Olympic games will go on at the epicenter despite hundreds academics calling for delaying them). If nobody makes money out of it nobody cares. Our whole system is simply dancing to that music.

So - let it roll babe.

1. Including my fat ass.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#232

Post by _red »

gjm11 wrote: post #227
tr1ck5t3r wrote: post #224

Its nice picking your time scales and models to convey a message as this image shows when CO2 was in the thousands parts per million. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Phaneroz... Now whilst its true the sun is heating up before it goes super nova millions of years in the future, which is what alot of the global warming fear is based on, and yes man has contributed a small % of CO2 by releasing CO2…

> Its nice picking your time scales and models to convey a message Yeah, they're totally cherry-picking by only looking at the last four million years . Shocking. You're right that if we go back, say, 100 million years, we find CO2 levels somewhat higher than today. Other things we find: temperatures 20-40 degrees C higher at the poles than today; something like half of Europe and the US under water. (See http://www.…

For the vast majority of the earths history there has been no ice at the poles.

We are coming out of an ice-age currently which is why there are still some remnants left.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#233

Post by Ensorceled »

wallace_f wrote: post #214
sd8f9iu wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The big fear with climate change is that it's irreversible. That is not the case with the other problems you mention. 2. Climate change is predicted to cause food supply problems for hundreds of millions of people, trillions of dollars of economic damage, and rising sea levels that flood coastal cities. I don't see how the other problems you mention are more dire. 3. The problems you mention – homelessness, drug a…

Seriously? I am opposed to climate change? Did you read my post? I never said I am opposed to progress on climate change or that it's not worth solving. This is exactly the type of politics I dislike when it comes to climate change: I called into question some of the political aspects of climate change, and now I'm being cast out of as an infidel, non-believer, someone opposed to climate change progress, and being gi…

Lose the high-school dramatics. I put you in camp #3 as well.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#234

Post by Ensorceled »

briandear wrote: post #192
lancewiggs wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deforestation is a climate change problem as well as a local ecosystem problem. Solve for both. Life expectancies have risen by a ridiculous amount over the last 150 years. Wide-spread diabetes is a symptom of a wealthy society that is over-indulging - solve for that problem, and, you guessed it, climate change is assisted too. Climate change can destroy our global ecosystem - the one that sustains all life. While th…

So remove the wealth and thus limit over indulging? Ok, you first.

This comment doesn't even make sense. A wealthy society over-indulging doesn't need it's wealth curtailed in order to stop over-indulging and the comment you replied to didn't imply that it did.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#236

Post by sd8f9iu »

wallace_f wrote: post #214
sd8f9iu wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The big fear with climate change is that it's irreversible. That is not the case with the other problems you mention. 2. Climate change is predicted to cause food supply problems for hundreds of millions of people, trillions of dollars of economic damage, and rising sea levels that flood coastal cities. I don't see how the other problems you mention are more dire. 3. The problems you mention – homelessness, drug a…

Seriously? I am opposed to climate change? Did you read my post? I never said I am opposed to progress on climate change or that it's not worth solving. This is exactly the type of politics I dislike when it comes to climate change: I called into question some of the political aspects of climate change, and now I'm being cast out of as an infidel, non-believer, someone opposed to climate change progress, and being gi…

If you're not saying, "it's not worth solving," then what exactly are you saying? What other problems pose "similar if not more immediate, or greater risks to humanity" than climate change? It'd be nice if you could name a few. It seems like your post boils down to, "we have other problems to solve too, besides climate change." Ok. Great.

You do 2 things in your post: you prioritize climate change below other problems (apparently without naming them, which I mistook), and you criticize the behaviors of climate change activists. Please correct me if I'm wrong in understanding your assertions.

I replied with 1 and 2 to show how climate change is the most dire and threatening problem we face. And I replied with 3 and 4 to address your criticisms of climate change activism.

I view climate change as by far the biggest problem humanity has on its plate. I think the alarmism is plainly justified.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#237

Post by Pxtl »

wallace_f wrote: post #175

Sometimes I feel I am the only one sceptical of the politics and alarmism surrounding climate change. I am Not saying I'm skeptical that it is real (or to be more appropriately scientific, that the evidence suggests the observed increase in CO2 and temperature most likely is caused by emissions), but I'm saying the politics are more complex than that. I can think of a number of other issues that pose similar if not m…

The alarmism comes from reputable scientific research saying that the outcome will be terrifying catastrophy.

The politics come from the fact that in many places, everybody but the strongly left have decided they don't give a crap, so many solutions you hear about are intertwined with left-wing politics.

I bike to work and I eat vegetarian. I'm not impressed with the rationalizations people come up with for doing nothing.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#238

Post by Pxtl »

r00fus wrote: post #144
josho wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup that's all true. But when the next president of the largest economy either doesn't believe in climate change or wants to increase fracking then we clearly have a long way to go before change happens.

Both party candidates believe in fracking. Not sure how we lower our CO levels while fracking is the new coal.

Coal releases far more carbon than natural gas.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#239

Post by coldpie »

briandear wrote: post #191
sd8f9iu wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The big fear with climate change is that it's irreversible. That is not the case with the other problems you mention. 2. Climate change is predicted to cause food supply problems for hundreds of millions of people, trillions of dollars of economic damage, and rising sea levels that flood coastal cities. I don't see how the other problems you mention are more dire. 3. The problems you mention – homelessness, drug a…

I've been hearing about the sky falling because of climate change most of my life. Yet in the 1970s it was global cooling. The easiest way to convince someone of a particular 'danger' is to promise world-ending catastrophe. The science was 'settled' on Eugenics during the early 20th century as well and we saw how that turned out. There's no mention of any positive effects of global warming. The climate is certainly c…

> Yet in the 1970s it was global cooling.

Nope: http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/that-70s-myth-did-cli...

> Forgive me for not trusting the anti-capitalist cabal that share more values with Lenin than with Milton Friedman.

Stop reading crappy news sources. Have you read the IPCC 5th AR? The synthesis report summary for policymakers is an excellent overview and really easy to read: http://ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/syr/AR5_SYR_FINAL_S...

It discusses evidence, projections for the future, practical effects for people and for economies, and potential mitigation techniques, all in common language. The IPCC reports are a combination of inputs from all the world's climate scientists. These aren't communists and Lenin fanatics (what the heck are you reading??), these are real scientists doing peer-reviewed work with real data. More about the IPCC 5th report: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_Fifth_Assessment_Report

This is a very serious issue and I'm really disappointed that the issue has been framed in such a way as to give you the impression that ignoring long-standing scientific principles that we use in every other area of our lives is the best way for you to act.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#240

Post by bprieto »

MikeHolman wrote: post #72

I've been having a bit of an existential crisis about this recently. Is sustainability even possible anymore? We are obviously living beyond the capacity of the earth to cope right now. But is it even possible to sustain this many people (at current standards of living with foreseeable technology)?

Yes, sustainability is possible. No, we are not living beyond the capacity of the earth. Yes, it's possible to sustain this many people, and some billions more.

Because the very concept of "resources" is not fixed. In the Paleolythic, all of Eurasia and Africa only had resources to sustain a few hundred of thousands of humans. Petrol wasn't a resource, coal wasn't a resource, even land wasn't a resource.

When we learnt to grow crops and tame animals the resources grew to let the same land sustain some millions of people.

And in the past 50 years, Borlaug's Green Revolution [1] turned all of 70's predictions of doom like The Population Bomb false. We have now more food than ever, and more resources than ever. And that's if we call "resources" just the things that we can use now.

In 50 years, people will be worrying about running out of X, where X will be a thing that we now don't think about as a resource.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

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