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Buffer Layoffs

open.buffer.com

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Re: Buffer Layoffs

#261

Post by x0x0 »

rtpg wrote: post #250
x0x0 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're families when it benefits the business. And businesses are cutthroat capitalists when it benefits them. All that family nonsense is just to talk employees out of looking after their own interests. Your relationship with your employer is inherently antagonistic, and anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you some BS. That doesn't mean you can't work well together, but sometimes your interests align with the…

Well there are degrees to this. Buffer seemed to want not having to fire people, but made a mistake. You can compare this to big game companies, which have no problem hiring a bunch of people and then laying them off when the project is done. All the disadvantages of being an employee (IP assignment for side projects, low pay) with all the disadvantages of being a contractor (no income stability). Companies do what t…

I'm pretty sure founders at Buffer feeling real bad about firing folks doesn't make the experience any better for the fired folks. Three to six weeks of severance is a tight turnaround to get a new job, particularly for non-engineering employees or remote employees. And, guessing based on their ramp-up and lifo scheme, they're probably firing some employees inside their first 6 mos. ie they most likely recently left a job for Buffer. I understand there's no promise of lifetime employment, but that's a serious dick move.

Re: Buffer Layoffs

#262

Post by Declanomous »

mangeletti wrote: post #126
Declanomous wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I am apparently massively underpaid. And I have to commute to work. Lose-lose.

TBH, that's a win-win. There's nothing better than being content with what you're paid, and then learning that there's huge upside potential. The worst thing ever is finding out that you're in the top 2% of salaries for your role in the industry, and then knowing there's nowhere to go but down from there.

>There's nothing better than being content with what you're paid, and then learning that there's huge upside potential.

That's a good point. I feel somewhat fiscally irresponsible since I have student loans and such. On the other hand, part of the reason I'd like to make more money is because a lot of my close friends became engineers, etc, and make a lot more money. It's not very fun to always be the guy who is like "Uh, guys, can we plan something a little cheaper?"

I'm contributing to my 401k and I'm saving money on top of that though, so I don't really have much to complain about. It's just little things.

Re: Buffer Layoffs

#263

Post by TrickedOut »

vertis wrote: post #180
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would have been a better decision to lay off 3-4 more people and let the remaining employees keep their perks and annual salary increase. 3% doesn't keep up with inflation. Maybe make that 4-5 people and create an incentive fund for those who kick some ass and help the company fight its way back from its mistakes.

3% absolutely does keep up with inflation[1][2] (whether it adequately compensates for increased experience as well is another matter). The last 10 years US inflation was 3.2,2.9,3.8,-0.4 1.6,3.2,2.1,1.5,1.6,0.1 according to the world bank[2]. Giving the US an average inflation rate of just 1.96%. [1]: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-infla... [2]: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FP.CPI.TOTL…

Those may be inflation figures given my the government, but real life has real inflation -- like things that are not counted in the world bank inflation period. Could of questions to think about: - In real life, how much has your rent gone up by? - In real life, how much have your medical premiums and co-pays increased? - In real life, how much have your drug co-pays gone up?

Re: Buffer Layoffs

#264

Post by georgiecasey »

minimaxir wrote: post #2

While Buffer's transparency is incredible, the financial calculations in the article fail to account for the possibility of an employee exodus domino effect, especially after both knowing the financial state of the company, and relevant perks being cut.

https://open.buffer.com/hiring-at-buffer-in-february-2024-ap...

i wouldn't be worried about an employee exodus as they get loads of applications as is. and everyone is replaceable IMO.

the company fascinates me with their high salaries for customer service and relative low salaries for engineering. from that post, they've way more applications for customer service than engineering. why not save money by paying way less?

Re: Buffer Layoffs

#265

Post by sb8244 »

iakh wrote: post #229
mangeletti wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I will be flying to Vienna next month. It's $1,300/ea including the return flight from Copenhagen (price was the same when we priced Munich when we were planning the trip, in case you're wondering about the fare differences between Austria and Germany). I would never pay 307% of that price for an extra 3 inches of leg room and a free plate of salt and BHT.

What about 50% more [1] for a seat that turns into a bed [2]? International business class is not "an extra 3 inches of leg room" and can often be quite reasonably priced. 1. https://www.google.com/flights/#search;f=SFO;t=VIE,XWW;d=201... *priced at less than $2,000 at the time of this posting 2. http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common/guidevoyageur/classeetc...

Serious question, how is business from ATL -> Vienna almost 5k? I don't understand this at all, especially given the fact that Atlanta is closer to Vienna.

In general, I'm always perplexed at the costs of flights, so was surprised to hear about such a relatively cheap international flight. Disappointing upon further inspection.

Re: Buffer Layoffs

#266

Post by prebrov »

jes wrote: post #52
compiler-guy wrote: post #36

This may be a little cynical but: "With our culture of bringing our whole selves to work and seeing team as family, with shared values we live by,..." In the American business world, you are an employee until you aren't. Confusing being an employee with being "family" is a mistake, both for the company and the employee. When times get bad, companies do what it takes to survive, including throwing employees overboard.…

I'd say no relationships, including family relationships, should be maintained if they aren't in the long-term self-interest of all parties. In other words, every relationship is a trading relationship, and the currency of the realm isn't always, or even often, monetary in nature.

I really appreciate your further comments. I agree for most part that humans and other living things ultimately act out of self-interest.

However, there are circumstances when rationale breaks, like when member of your family develops a terminal decease. A purely rational decision would be to cut emotional and financial losses and abandon them, wouldn't it? Yet, luckily, we don't see that happen.

The length to which we go to keep family relationships is irrational, yet I suspect it's a huge component of how we managed to ensure reliance of a system and develop huge societies.

Re: Buffer Layoffs

#268

Post by kyleashipley »

__abc wrote: post #13
danso wrote: post #7

FWIW, here's their public spreadsheet of salaries and calculations. Not sure if it's been recently updated (on closer look, seems to reflect the founders' stated pay cuts, and new hires as recent as last month): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l3bXAv8JE5RB9siMq36-... edit: Adding links to their blog posts: https://open.buffer.com/transparent-salaries/ https://open.buffer.com/introducing-open-salaries-at-buffe…

Why do this? I don't understand ... am I just being too old school / narrow minded about this?

Having a transparent formula for salary limits or removes the effects of negotiation, which likely benefits engineers (typically bad at negotiating compared to e.g. sales people) and women/minorities (worried about increasing "otherness" further and sometimes lower leverage, at least in tech).

There are potential downsides such as increased politics or income inequality pressures, but it seems like a viable policy at least. I'm curious how someone like Google's Laszlo Bock would respond to this approach in comparison to their "pay unfairly"[1] mentality.

[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/google-policy-to-pay-unfairly...

Re: Buffer Layoffs

#269

Post by munin »

prebrov wrote: post #266
jes wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say no relationships, including family relationships, should be maintained if they aren't in the long-term self-interest of all parties. In other words, every relationship is a trading relationship, and the currency of the realm isn't always, or even often, monetary in nature.

I really appreciate your further comments. I agree for most part that humans and other living things ultimately act out of self-interest. However, there are circumstances when rationale breaks, like when member of your family develops a terminal decease. A purely rational decision would be to cut emotional and financial losses and abandon them, wouldn't it? Yet, luckily, we don't see that happen. The length to which…

> Yet, luckily, we don't see that happen.

is it lucky? especially in the west, we'll fight a terminal disease long past the inevitable, at the expense of the patients well being. at some point the humane thing to do IS to "abandon" them.

Re: Buffer Layoffs

#270

Post by imron »

spitfire wrote: post #181
pbreit wrote: post #62

I have mixed emotions with Buffer's shtick. On the one hand there's something fresh and unique about it. On the other, I think: just put your heads down and get to work serving customers! I'm guessing the main benefit of the open-ness is marketing. I doubt it helps the company much beyond that.

Well, except for hiring. When they get to that again. Sometimes just vocalizing things came lead to new insight. I like their approach, minus the salary transparancy.

> When they get to that again.

Looks like they're still hiring: https://buffer.com/journey/full-stack-developer

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