Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they're exploiting black people to drive down labor costs > he's evil because he's trying to exploit the underprivileged to enhance his own prestige These are straw men. Serious people aren't criticizing him for things like this. Almost 100% of publicly-known charity is, to some extent, designed to enhance prestige. As far as "exploiting" black people to drive down labor costs, it's not like they're Chinese factory…
As of right now, the second highest top comment is the "exploiting black people" thing. I think the parent did well in exposing how people seemingly want to make a witch out of Zuckerberg no matter what he does.
The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
31–40 of 61 posts
Re: The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe that he is making this investment for either of those reasons. I believe he is making it because developing additional pools of low-cost contract labor is in the long term excellent for his business. Additionally, Andela will capture some of the delta between the cost of African and the cost of Indian or American developers, some of which will in turn be returned to the Initiative to finance future fo…
> low-cost contract labor Phrases like that ring to me to describe a two class of people: a "low cost" tier, and a "normal cost" tier. To me this has obvious racist overtones as "low-cost" is often followed by [nationality]. If someone is willing to work harder, she should get the job, but somehow if that same person is willing to work as hard for less money, she is unworthy? Sure the company benefits from a spread b…
This destabilizes the local economy, creating gentrified districts or entire cities(See: SF) where only the privileged laborers for a foreign economy can afford to live. It will also lead to a sharp increase in luxury good prices due to new demand, driving the bar for middle-class living out of reach for local workers. The skilled workers hired by the foreign economy become a brain drain - the government has invested resources into their education, but no one in the local economy can afford them, thus they'll never create goods for it to improve local technology levels.
Helping people is hard.
Re: The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
#33It's sad that if some attempt to do good, often it's not good enough, but if they do nothing, it's okay. It's unlikely I ever agree with how other people try to do good, but I am grateful that they try. Go some go good; today!
I do: I pay my taxes instead of trying to avoid them like Facebook does.
Re: The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
As of right now, the second highest top comment is the "exploiting black people" thing. I think the parent did well in exposing how people seemingly want to make a witch out of Zuckerberg no matter what he does.
Sadly Zuckerberg himself seems to provide plenty of ammunition for those claims: - Aggressive disregard of privacy on FB - Using deception and dirty tactics to make the FB app run continuously on the background of your phone - Manipulating timeline results - Manipulating trending topics - Naming a for-profit arm of the company ".org" - Publicly attacking net neutrality activists by buying gigantic ads across India -…
> Using deception and dirty tactics to make the FB app run continuously on the background of your phone
Can you provide a link that explains this in more detail?
> Manipulating timeline results
I actually see this as a feature. Somehow Facebook has kept time-on-site and MAU metrics very, very high, so the timeline must be working well for most people.
You can also configure it to a surprisingly granular degree.
> Manipulating trending topics
There was no anti-conservative bias, and any other manipulation could be construed as curation or editing. I hid trending topics with a CSS rule, but if I were using it, I would want it to be curated and edited. I see this as a potential feature if done right.
Anyway, no one is forced to get their news from trending topics.
> Naming a for-profit arm of the company ".org"
.org domains aren't required to be used for non-profits, and the Chan Zuckerberg initiative could certainly be considered a charity.
In the US, non-profit status is a tax designation and has no bearing on how beneficial an organization is. In fact, I'm glad that it's not a non-profit, because it means the money comes from Zuckerberg and not from tax-payers.
> Publicly attacking net neutrality activists by buying gigantic ads across India
Links? I know Facebook was heavily criticized for attempting to undermine net neutrality in India, but I've never seen anything about them attacking activists directly via ads.
(Not that it matters, but it's pretty ironic that an ad company would buy ads in the physical world...)
> Calling the Brazilian people to protest in front of the Congress
This is very reasonable and actually positive (even if it did directly involve his company). Are you for or against internet/communication freedom? The Brazilian people absolutely should have protested the WhatsApp ban, especially because the reasoning for it wasn't made public.
WhatsApp is one of the few apps with excellent encryption, as well.
> Whitewashing his personal for-profit investment company as a "initiative"
Again, for-profit vs. non-profit is a tax designation. The US is structured to allow people to profit from doing good things. Is there a reason people shouldn't benefit from their humanitarian efforts? Should all non-profit employees just be volunteers, in that case?
I can understand taking issue with capitalism and the idea that good deeds must be incentivized with money, but I can't understand taking issue with Zuckerberg operating within a system set up by others.
> he appears extremely arrogant when you take in account some of the actions above, so it is quite understandable that people see him that way
Yeah, but so does Elon Musk a lot of the time, and people worship him. Off the top of my head, Paul Graham, Marc Andreessen, and Jeff Bezos also regularly come off as incredibly arrogant (more arrogant than Zuckerberg, in my view). I think that arrogance might be a pre-requisite for being wildly successful in the US startup world: you have to believe that you are special and will do something that 99% of others fail at.
> Oh, and the movie.
Well, it was fiction...
Re: The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
#35After-all, just about everything he does in his life includes deception, dishonesty, and theft, right down to the part where he stole Facebook from his business partners.
Re: The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly Zuckerberg himself seems to provide plenty of ammunition for those claims: - Aggressive disregard of privacy on FB - Using deception and dirty tactics to make the FB app run continuously on the background of your phone - Manipulating timeline results - Manipulating trending topics - Naming a for-profit arm of the company ".org" - Publicly attacking net neutrality activists by buying gigantic ads across India -…
I don't care much about Zuckerberg either way, but I'm interested in discussing some of these points in more detail. > Using deception and dirty tactics to make the FB app run continuously on the background of your phone Can you provide a link that explains this in more detail? > Manipulating timeline results I actually see this as a feature. Somehow Facebook has kept time-on-site and MAU metrics very, very high, so…
You might disagree with the reasons and defend him endlessly, that still doesn't mean the reasons don't exist.
Some sources: http://boingboing.net/2015/12/27/facebooks-fuddy-full-page-a... http://www.zdnet.com/article/insane-iphone-battery-drain-dis...
Also, we're not talking about the domain, we're talking about the name of the subsidiary: it's called "internet.org".
And non-profit isn't just about taxes. You can't take money out of a non-profit into your own pocket. Got it?
Oh, and people don't like when owners of foreign companies try to use them as fodder cannon to promote their own objectives, as in Brazil, no matter what's the upside.
And you don't see Elon Musk using FUD against activists, or doing any of the above.
About the movie, you're still not understanding my post. It doesn't matter if it was fiction or not, people still believe it.
Re: The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> low-cost contract labor Phrases like that ring to me to describe a two class of people: a "low cost" tier, and a "normal cost" tier. To me this has obvious racist overtones as "low-cost" is often followed by [nationality]. If someone is willing to work harder, she should get the job, but somehow if that same person is willing to work as hard for less money, she is unworthy? Sure the company benefits from a spread b…
They're willing to work for less because in their local economy, the pay is actually good to great. This destabilizes the local economy, creating gentrified districts or entire cities(See: SF) where only the privileged laborers for a foreign economy can afford to live. It will also lead to a sharp increase in luxury good prices due to new demand, driving the bar for middle-class living out of reach for local workers.…
With corruption having bled those countries dry, there remains little by way of local engineering opportunities and those able to, leave. A local training hub as Andela is difficult to see as worsening that situation.
Re: The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
#38It's sad that if some attempt to do good, often it's not good enough, but if they do nothing, it's okay. It's unlikely I ever agree with how other people try to do good, but I am grateful that they try. Go some go good; today!
>Go some go good; today! I do: I pay my taxes instead of trying to avoid them like Facebook does.
Re: The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
#39I suppose I can't help but admire the chutzpah of cloaking a tax deductible scheme to drive down your labor costs as a noble quest to "advance human potential". Now where did I put my black and red flags...
Whether you believe he is doing a good thing because it's a good thing, or just because he wants to be seen doing a good thing, it doesn't change the fact that the good thing is being done. Tax deductibility does indeed incentivise charitable giving, possibly for selfish reasons. But the person on the recieving end of education/healthcare/whatever, doesn't really care do they? The effect is what's important, not the…
Although there is no law against a charity or not-for-profit deciding to remove funding for a program they, by definition, are not motivated by the money flow of the program. Sure they are interested in making the program run efficiently and that there is enough funding to begin the program and see the program through but profit is not their core motivation and thus, I would argue, are more committed in their programs and investments. Those exploiting inefficiencies for gain should be reprimanded by the system granting these special business types.
Re: The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative makes its first investment
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't it do both of those, plus also potentially open Facebook to being out-competed by a Nigerian or Kenyan software company? Even if his particular brand of education is in the particular areas in which his company employs people (note that it is also his own personal area of education and expertise), I don't think that should be enough to dismiss funding education as a valid tax deductible charity. Now, if in th…
Andela's business model is to provide low-cost contract labor to large tech firms. This is of course delightful for those African students who benefit from the program and from a business perspective a wise investment by the Chan Zuckerbeg slush fund. I only wish that they would dispense with the nauseatingly self-congratulatory marketing copy.