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The Intel ME subsystem can take over your machine, can't be audited

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Re: The Intel ME subsystem can take over your machine, can't be audited

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Codesigning is "security-by-obscurity" now?

No, not that, the rest of it. I meant the fact that it's a binary blob which hasn't (recently) been subject to review by users.

The rest of it is covered by my second argument. They don't want you to see it due to highly proprietary stuff running there.

And if you agree about code signing, do you really believe that letting everyone see it, but then not allow anyone else to change it, is a good idea?

Re: The Intel ME subsystem can take over your machine, can't be audited

#62
post #41

I find people freaking out about this extremely strange. AMT is Intel's equivalent of IPMI. It is a non-standard implementation of it, and does not follow any of the relevant specifications. It does not integrate into most server management platforms. AMT costs extra. Most mobos do not have it enabled as you have to pay Intel's tax on it, even if some of the hardware to enable it is in every northbridge. A motherboar…

>Now, is the ME chip a threat? Possibly, not not as much as your cell phone's baseband modem is. The baseband modem can talk to outside networks, ME can't unless it is paired with a NIC it can talk to (Intel does not require mobos that have this; and generally, motherboards meant for AMT ship Intel NICs, but not always). The last ~dozen regular (gigabyte/asus/asrock/...) desktop PC motherboards i've seen have all use…

Intel NICs are considered a premium feature on desktop boards, it is not a common sight.

Re: The Intel ME subsystem can take over your machine, can't be audited

#63
post #22

No doubt various three-letter agencies are having a field-day with this right now. Hopefully a robin-hood type will reverse-engineer the blob and post a permanent fix to disable this thing before a more nefarious person/group uses it to devastate the PC landscape with something even worse than bitlocker.

It's impossible to "reverse-engineer" a cryptographic signature. Properly implemented (and you can bet that Intel has had time to finalize this) it's computationally insurmountable.

just like how DVD Encryption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Scramble_System) was never reverse engineered because the key was too difficult to crack ?

Re: The Intel ME subsystem can take over your machine, can't be audited

#66
Joanna Rutkowska has written a nice paper on the topic, highly recommended: http://blog.invisiblethings.org/papers/2015/x86_harmful.pdf

Edit: There's also a talk from 32c3 for those more inclined to watch a video. I am pretty worried ever since I watched that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcwngbUrZNg

(which is why I have researched non-Intel laptop alternatives..cliffnotes: GPUs without BLOBs are hard to find and there will be some severe tradeoffs which is expected)

Re: The Intel ME subsystem can take over your machine, can't be audited

#67
post #33

Where can people go if they want a fully-libre machine and are willing to sacrifice x86?

Pi-top like laptop with your choice of pi3 or BeagleBone running Linux. The performance of a pi3 is actually decent. It's not perfect as there's a GPU BLOB in the pi3 and the BB also has some issue. It's my compromise for now, hoping the blob will be reversed/replaced eventually.

Or anything that runs libreboot: https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/

If OpenBSD runs on it that's also a good sign usually as they won't touch anything with BLOBs.

Re: The Intel ME subsystem can take over your machine, can't be audited

#68
post #42
post #14

Why can't Intel implement proper security and open up this blob to begin with? Not opening it and not allowing to disable it, suggests it's intended for something sinister.

As stated in the article, some researchers have managed to unpack it, and it can now be dissembled. You can't (and hpefully won't) be able to execute your own code there. There are 2 good reasons for this: 1) As per the article, to actually prevent ring -3 malware. The implemented signature is the best way to do this. If we could run our own "libre" code there, so could the attacker. 2) I bet this firmware controlls…

> 1) As per the article, to actually prevent ring -3 malware. The implemented signature is the best way to do this. If we could run our own "libre" code there, so could the attacker.

If the code can be updated by $company, then it should also be allowed for users to update it. It's the same as the UEFI argument (though you should use CoreBoot). If it was impossible to update, then it wouldn't be a problem from a free software perspective. From a security perspective it should still be free software.

Re: The Intel ME subsystem can take over your machine, can't be audited

#70
It may be, that Intel didn't plan this as an NSA/XYZ back door - but it doesn't actually matter. What matters is that we know 1) Intel has such technology implemented in allmost all desktops/servers currently running 2) you can access those machines remotely (even over GSM) and perform reads/writes.

Example misuse: somebody can put illegal stuff on your machine and then sue you...

(Intel has marketed this feature for big companies so they can format the HDD remotely over GSM in case laptop was stolen.)

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