Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#41

Post by eitally » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

Coincoin wrote: post #39

jasonkostempski wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it legal to negotiate terms for them to leave voluntarily?

Yes, that is a common way of firing people under permanent contracts in Europe. You give them a crappy position for a few months until they get bored to death and then offer them to leave for X months/years of salary.

You used an employment concept here that isn't typical or well-understood by American workers: permanent contract. Americans are well-versed in short term contracts, mostly because of sports, but I doubt more than a few percent of them ever consider that, absent any specification otherwise, all employment contracts are presented as permanent.

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#42

Post by smhenderson » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

drostie wrote: post #35

TL;DR: Netflix changed everything when it switched from mail-order DVDs to streaming-video. Now, people find themselves (a) not watching commercials and (b) watching shows back-to-back. This has been lucrative for the company in terms of raw revenue, but not in terms of profits after costs: though the article is pretty murky on this (one part says that they made millions in profits; another says that they have a cons…

* Another is that they don't own the vast majority of their content*

That's true now and probably will be for the foreseeable future but the content they do own is great IMO. For me it started with the obvious - Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc. But lately I've dived into other things they've done and enjoyed just about all of it. Great example - River - a somewhat disturbing detective show with good acting, exciting action and just a deep insight into a brilliant but seemingly broken man.

Even if Netflix has to evolve again to stay alive I hope the do so in a way that lets them continue making original content.

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#43

Post by hnal943 » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #32

SyneRyder wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I often thought they and the team would be much better off if they found work somewhere else where either they'd feel challenged to develop themselves further, or where their current skills were good enough." This echoes one of the chapters in Fire Someone Today, a book with a seemingly heartless title, written by the CEO of a Bible software company. They had an underperforming employee that everyone liked & no-one…

> "The punch line: the employee flourished as soon as he was fired - his dream had been to join the ministry, but he'd worried about quitting a stable job to do so." I'm generally in favor of firing underperforming employees, but this punchline feels uncomfortably close to ex post facto justification. Lots and lots and lots of people get fired and don't flourish, in fact they drop like a brick and hit rock bottom. Wh…

...Really? Hitting rock bottom to me implies they lose everything. I don't think the majority of people that are fired lose everything; there's a reason they were hired in the first place and other companies can see that value. They will get hired by another company and have a chance to apply their experience in new ways. My father was fired after 26 years and it was the best thing that could have happened to his career. He wasn't happy with the management changes at his job and ultimately he was forced to look for work where he fit with the culture better.

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#44

Post by Programmatic » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:14 PM UTC

koralatov wrote: post #23

maxerickson wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That they fire people rather arbitrarily is being written about in a national publication. So someone applying for a job has a good chance of understanding it going into the process. That's a pretty high degree of transparency about how they do things.

That's not really what we're talking about when we're talking about 'transparency' her. Just because it's known that something happens doesn't mean it happens in a transparent fashion. Transparency of process is important, too, and required before you can really call something 'transparent'. As it stands, the person making the decision could be doing so for totally arbitrary reasons. It doesn't appear that there's an…

I think the part that is transparent is that you're not going to build your career and retire at Netflix, you know it's a stint. It may be arbitrary and capricious otherwise, but you know that in advance and can decide if it's worth it. I would not mind being in such an environment for a stint, myself.

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#45

Post by majewsky » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:18 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #10

dominotw wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder if this is part of the reason why there are not too many Netflix-like high achieving companies in Europe -- firing people is not possible. This probably explains why I've never seen my German counterparts ever being fired. The lowest performers are endlessly shuffled between projects, maybe hoping they would leave voluntarily ?

That's perhaps one way. Or assigning the employee no tasks at all, just an empty room with a desk and chair, and a requirement to be there during normal working hours. No sane person takes that for a longer time. Companies do have longish probation periods (say, 6-9 months) before the contract is final. Within this period either party can cancel the employment at will, with no notice period. This is meant to be the t…

I saw an article a year back or so about an administrative office in Germany that was dismantled. But because they couldn't fire the officers, they put them in a building with nothing to do until everyone quit voluntarily. The toughest made it about over a year. (Can't find the original article, sadly.)

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#46

Post by draw_down » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:18 PM UTC

yarapavan wrote: post #2

Spoiler: It's a long read! > Does this still holds? Is there any other organization in dissimilar industry where this works? McCord also convinced Hastings that he should ask himself a few times a year whether he would hire the same person in the same job if it opened up that day. If the answer was no, Netflix would write a larger check and let the employee go. “If you are going to insist on high performance,” McCord…

When you combine it with top-of-market compensation and generous severance, as Netflix does, one can reasonably believe that this practice is actually done for the reason they claim (keeping the best talent).

When you don't combine it with good compensation, it's simply a rationalization for firing people whenever you want.

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#47

Post by sosuke » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:19 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #38

distances wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You’ll have to fire some really nice, hard-working people. But you have to do it with dignity. I wonder if this is part of the reason why there are not too many Netflix-like high achieving companies in Europe -- firing people is not possible. Even totally sucking at your job isn't acceptable reason for employment contract termination, that'd be just a reason for further training. You'll have to go through different…

These are not firings technically - you are being paid a bonus on the condition that you resign, as I understand it. Has anyone ever said no or are the payouts that much ?

The payouts are good and if you said no they would just fire you instead.

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#48

Post by majewsky » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:21 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #12

durzagott wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it only difficult to let go employees who've been in the job for more than 2 years? I'm pretty sure that how it is in the UK at least. Even then, there's the option of a PIP, which allows you to quantify their ineffectiveness and give you good cause for letting them go.

I can imagine UK being a bit different from the continental Europe. In the two countries I've worked in this is handled with a probation period of 6-9 months, but after this it gets much much harder.

Yes, it's like that in Germany. The probation period is typically 3-6 months (although you can be hired without one). After that, the company may only fire you because of financial problems (and that is basically prohibited in larger companies by the worker's council), or if you misbehave (show up late for work repeatedly, steal intellectual property, etc.).

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#49

Post by mahyarm » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:22 PM UTC

mercer wrote: post #9

kefka wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this precisely is why we Millenials have no qualms about leaving a job. They have no problem divorcing us because of some vapid "performance" metric. How do they quantify understanding how to get things done in that org? I know with my job, I'm learning how the institution hinders growth, except through certain channels. That meta-knowledge is absolutely essential... yet seemingly ignored.

Instinctively and ideologically I mostly oppose the idea of this lack of loyalty toward employees. At the same time, for some reason it bothers me less the way it is presented to work within Netflix. I'm not sure why, though. Maybe it's to do with the fact that there are plenty of jobs in tech right now and Netflix apparently pays very well, enough for a future employee to accept that disadvantage. Partly it's also b…

Netflix total compensation seems to match places like google, apple and facebook, but with a sword damoceles waiting to fire you. That feels like a net negative.

Re: Can Netflix Survive in the New World It Created?

#50

Post by rpgmaker » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:24 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #30

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's this: 'The key concept is summed up in the 23rd slide. “We’re a team, not a family,” it reads. “Netflix leaders hire, develop and cut smartly, so we have stars in every position.” ' I see it like a professional sports team. Players have to deliver performance game after game. If they can't keep it up, they are traded or released, or their contract is not renewed. When they age-out, they either go into coaching,…

The minimum salary in the NFL is currently $450,000. The "job" is unionised and you have lifetime benefits (negotiated after some players with chronic concussion related illnesses were found broke and homeless). While the careers are short the compensation is fair. And you are legally allowed to work a side job, i.e. sponsorships. I don't imagine corporate USA saying yes to high salaries, unionisation, pensions, nor…

They also have "job security" for the duration of the contract and if they are "fired" as we traditionally understand it usually they have to be compensated in some form (although it depends on the contract).