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In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

theguardian.com

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Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#401

Post by vintermann »

VLM wrote: post #305
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It used to be that the left was anti-authoritarian and the right was authoritarian. Libertarians were extremely anti-authoritarian. What has evolved, however, was that "soft" libertarianism got co-opted by the right. The left also co-opted libertarians, but not to the degree the right did. Since the "right" as we know it remains, as ever, in favor of banning gay marriage, recreational marijuana, and alcohol sales on…

>the "right" as we know it Insert standard parable of the blind men talking funny about elephant parts. Like it or not, there's at least five "right" wings and its like herding cats. The Christians were dominant maybe two decades ago, neocons were dominant for awhile, not so much recently. You can guess who's on the rise and the progs don't like it very much. 1) Neocon / megacorporate lackey. Never seen an eternal wa…

Prosperity gospel types are turn the other cheek on foreign policy?

Bible belt southerners _don't_ use projectors and bands? What do they use then? I would have thought choir and organ churches were the more left/liberal - they are in Europe.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this sounds very odd to me.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#402

Post by 794CD01 »

rhizome wrote: post #362
794CD01 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your criticism isn't internally consistent. For the sake of argument, let's say that racism is quantifiable. It probably isn't, but saying people get more or less racist pretty much implied that it is, so just run with it for a second. Say that after moving to DC, everyone's racism level gradually moves towards 75. That obviously means it's about DC, not the people. But some people started at 30 and some people start…

The statement I was responding to was, "This has far more about cultural friction than the people involved." Your reply supports this: whether they do or don't (and to what degree) is an individual matter. I wasn't disputing that experience can change a person's attachment to racism.

I think my contrived example implies the exact opposite. If their new level is largely determined by where they live and work, why wouldn't you expect the same of the old one? Perhaps the 30 moved from New York, while the 90 moved from San Francisco.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#403

Post by AlwaysRock »

I grew up in Vermont and there was a McDonalds on both sides of town. I've probably eaten at McDonalds that any other restaurant in my life. It's certainly a gathering place in my hometown. It's difficult to go and not run into someone you know.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#404

Post by Retric »

rhizome wrote: post #362
794CD01 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your criticism isn't internally consistent. For the sake of argument, let's say that racism is quantifiable. It probably isn't, but saying people get more or less racist pretty much implied that it is, so just run with it for a second. Say that after moving to DC, everyone's racism level gradually moves towards 75. That obviously means it's about DC, not the people. But some people started at 30 and some people start…

The statement I was responding to was, "This has far more about cultural friction than the people involved." Your reply supports this: whether they do or don't (and to what degree) is an individual matter. I wasn't disputing that experience can change a person's attachment to racism.

It's not that a specific person does a specific things that's bad. It's that cultures have different takes on accepted behaviors. Some behavior that seems more or less ok in culture A, is going to piss people off from culture B. Do you stand on the left or right side of a hallway when talking down it?

At the same time you will find people going against type regularly. Which has a moderating effect. It's hard to think X are bums when you see hard working people from X.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#405

Post by alex_sf »

pjlegato wrote: post #349
alex_sf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's awfully ignorant. Hating on McDonalds and the like is the trendy thing to do now, but to say that there is no nutritional or health value in their food is ridiculous. I just looked up the nutrition facts for a kid's happy meal with a cheeseburger, apples slices and chocolate milk. In total, you've got: 450 calories 12g total fat 6g saturated fat (not that it matters) 61g Carbs 32g Sugars (22 of which come from…

High sodium intake is not bad for you (unless you have a few very specific and unusual health conditions.) Like most late 20th century nutritional guidance, turns out that idea was totally wrong. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-th... https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=sodium+no+longer+bad+f...

I'm on board, but when talking about stuff like this it's best to use the textbook answers: less wiggle room.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#406

Post by gh-lfneu28 »

dimino wrote: post #234
gh-lfneu28 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually everyone should be free from being criticized, except for the people with the authority to do so. That goes double for people doing hard work and triple for people doing work that every joe shmoe on the internet thinks himself an expert on. In other words, my spouse can criticize my parenting everyone else can go frack themselves. Full stop.

No one is free from criticism, what they're free from is being forced to listen to it. No one's making anyone else here participate in the discussion. Performing hard work doesn't make you immune from doing that work poorly, and it's kind of alarming to me that this insular attitude is so popular on HN.

> they're free from is being forced to listen to it

That's what I've called 'free from being critisized' so yeah. Not sure what you mean by "No one is free from criticism". If you refer to rights of other people to express their critical opinion - sure, let them run their mouths in their own space.

The problems begin (as usual) when A is being forced to listen to B's opinions either because A cannot move away or because Bs are too numerous. That's where I think that B should have to shut up. "Your freedom to fo X ends etc etc". Participating in hard work is an aggravating factor here, meaning B should have to shut the f up right now or be forcefully removed.

In case of doubt just imaging an idiot shouting their mouth at the working surgeon.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#407

Post by dragonwriter »

pjlegato wrote: post #372
dragonwriter wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many younger people today find it hard to fathom, but the suburbs and fast food car culture were not (entirely) a capitalist plot executed by General Motors and McDonald's to brainwash the populace into unwitting wage-slave servitude. Yeah, a significant part of it was about race rather than capitalism.

Yes, racism existed (and still exists today.) However, the degree to which racism played a part in the construction of suburban America has now been greatly distorted and exaggerated by multiple generations of leftist academic historians, as part of a much larger political and cultural program aimed at disparaging traditional society in general. This is in turn part of the larger and extensively documented phenomenon…

> While some racists certainly existed, the vast, vast majority of individuals who moved from the cities to the suburbs neither knew nor cared about any racism that was going on.

The people moving may or may not have known (though I think you seriously understate the degree to which they did), but what is more important is that the people designing and executing the policies (including those of banks and those of governments) which shaped the suburbs definitely and deliberately were not only aware of but actively applying race-based discrimination in so doing.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#408

Post by d0lph »

m00n wrote: post #399
khattam wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>terrible and unhealthy food It is neither terrible nor unhealthy. >the cheapest food is the absolutely worst food. First, that would totally make sense. Second, it is not the case. Most McDonald foods are better than gluten-free ass-shit, both in taste and health. >A country priding itself in diversity is drowning in homogeneity. Breathing oxygen is homogenous. Let's create something else to breathe. Fucking brainle…

Your style of writing doesn't warrant a reply, but anyway: Your "argument" seems to be: Who calls McD unhealthy or bland must be "fucking brainless", also if McD food were as cheap as it is, because it's of the worst quality, that would totally make sense. But for some reason this isn't the case. Indeed, it is "better than shit." If you enjoy tasty food, by all means, eat it. But if you think deep-frying or pickling…

McDonalds really isn't that bad. Looking at the nutritional info, 540 calories for a big mac, 230 for fries (770 calories), which is easy to fit into a 2000 calorie/day meal plan. Of course you are shot if you start ordering sodas and icecream, but at the very least this is a comparable meal to what you might normally eat. Sodium is the only major concern, I think.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#409

Post by dimino »

gh-lfneu28 wrote: post #406
dimino wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is free from criticism, what they're free from is being forced to listen to it. No one's making anyone else here participate in the discussion. Performing hard work doesn't make you immune from doing that work poorly, and it's kind of alarming to me that this insular attitude is so popular on HN.

> they're free from is being forced to listen to it That's what I've called 'free from being critisized' so yeah. Not sure what you mean by "No one is free from criticism". If you refer to rights of other people to express their critical opinion - sure, let them run their mouths in their own space. The problems begin (as usual) when A is being forced to listen to B's opinions either because A cannot move away or beca…

Sorry, numerousness or locality are not criteria for removing a person's right to expression.

A needs to learn to tolerate B, basically. A isn't performing surgery, A is trying to write comments on HN.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#410

Post by gh-lfneu28 »

dimino wrote: post #409
gh-lfneu28 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're free from is being forced to listen to it That's what I've called 'free from being critisized' so yeah. Not sure what you mean by "No one is free from criticism". If you refer to rights of other people to express their critical opinion - sure, let them run their mouths in their own space. The problems begin (as usual) when A is being forced to listen to B's opinions either because A cannot move away or beca…

Sorry, numerousness or locality are not criteria for removing a person's right to expression. A needs to learn to tolerate B, basically. A isn't performing surgery, A is trying to write comments on HN.

> A is trying to write comments on HN

Huh? The topic was about people doing hard work. Writing comments is easy.

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