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Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

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Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#51

Post by ScaryRacoon »

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #39
sxg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to talk about things that other people think are fun. The point is to bring up something that can get you excited and animated. If what you call "work" does that for you, then I'd love to hear about it.

> The point is to bring up something that can get you excited and animated. Well, the only time you'll get that out of me is when I'm angry. Most of my weekends involve: * Reading research papers * Reviewing other peoples' source code * Reporting security vulnerabilities to open source projects (usually with a patch) * Improving these projects: https://github.com/paragonie I never have any time to watch movies, play…

That is fine. Talk about that. The point isn't to tell someone what is exciting, it is about making connections. Perhaps you read a research paper on a topic the other person has an interest in. Perhaps you contributed to a project they use in their spare time, or could use on a side project.

Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#52

Post by GrumpyYoungMan »

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #31
3pt14159 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found "what'd you get up to this weekend" to be a great conversation starter because most people have done at least one fun thing over the weekend.

People ask me that all the time and it's awkward. I very rarely do anything anyone else would consider "fun", even on weekends. Most of what I do can be classified as "work".

Being somewhat similar, I sympathize. I just tell them that I spent the time relaxing all weekend (regardless of what I actually did) and it seems to satisfy people.

(In spite of the stereotype, I'm always surprised to see how few genuine "introverted coders" there actually are in the industry and how unsympathetic the rest are.)

Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#53

Post by ScaryRacoon »

Keys that I have seen: * Empathy, compassion, and passion * Ability to delegate work appropriately and fairly * Ability to communicate in a appropriate manner and at the appropriate times: * To the team * To management * To non-technical stakeholders * Ability to identify the "unknowns" and give a fairly accurate estimate that takes into account those unknowns * Know when to raise the red flag if something big will hinder the original estimate * Be humble (no work is "below" them)

Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#54

Post by mk89 »

humanrebar wrote: post #38
mknocker wrote: post #36

Being the last man standing. Seems sad but when people leave bad company, usually the people who stay get promoted and some of them become senior developer. I have seen this strange pattern a few times.

Absolutely. A good way to make this happen is to crank out piles of write-only code. You'll look more productive than your peers and you'll be the expert on a relatively large part of the system. When things inevitability go wrong, you'll also be the hero that powers through the weekend hacking a solution together. Be sure not to document or comment this code. It makes your memories critical to the operation of the b…

I wonder if I actually know you and the user mknocker. Seriously, it's scary to read this stuff for how real it is :)

Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#55

Post by mk89 »

gbog wrote: post #50
mknocker wrote: post #36

Being the last man standing. Seems sad but when people leave bad company, usually the people who stay get promoted and some of them become senior developer. I have seen this strange pattern a few times.

Why strange? Staying there when difficulties arise, future become incertain, keep working when it becomes boring or very messy or unrewarding, being able to do the work of the designer or the project manager because they are gone, all these are proofs that you are reliable and able. I would certainly choose such a guy for a senior position.

If you do it because you are loyal to the company and you are good at what you do, you MUST be promoted. If, on the other hand, you do it because you need a promotion and all you have to do is to wait, well... I don't have the numbers, I just know that people are human, and many humans seek the best opportunities with the least effort.

Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#56

Post by specialist »

OliverJones wrote: post #10

Empathy is the key skill. Yes, it's learned. The ability to walk in somebody else's shoes for a while makes you a better developer. Why? * You acquire the habit of imagining what it's like to use the stuff you develop. * You have a feel for the daily experience of your colleagues, suppliers, executives and other stakeholders. These things give you the sort of spidey-sense that lets you function independently. They al…

Under the empathy umbrella, I'd add patience. Play the long game. Give people time to come around, catch up. Earn the respect and trust of the people around you.

Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#57

Post by gbog »

mk89 wrote: post #55
gbog wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why strange? Staying there when difficulties arise, future become incertain, keep working when it becomes boring or very messy or unrewarding, being able to do the work of the designer or the project manager because they are gone, all these are proofs that you are reliable and able. I would certainly choose such a guy for a senior position.

If you do it because you are loyal to the company and you are good at what you do, you MUST be promoted. If, on the other hand, you do it because you need a promotion and all you have to do is to wait, well... I don't have the numbers, I just know that people are human, and many humans seek the best opportunities with the least effort.

Yes, and more often than you seem to think, "waiting" is a good choice, because it leads to better opportunities in the long term. I don't advocate to stay in the same company forever. I suggest to do exactly the opposite of the flock, i.e. leave when people are coming in, and stay when people are leaving. (That's also a way to make money on the markets, maybe the only way.)

Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#58

Post by mercer »

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #39
sxg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to talk about things that other people think are fun. The point is to bring up something that can get you excited and animated. If what you call "work" does that for you, then I'd love to hear about it.

> The point is to bring up something that can get you excited and animated. Well, the only time you'll get that out of me is when I'm angry. Most of my weekends involve: * Reading research papers * Reviewing other peoples' source code * Reporting security vulnerabilities to open source projects (usually with a patch) * Improving these projects: https://github.com/paragonie I never have any time to watch movies, play…

If I'd asked you that question, and this was your answer, I'd probably have asked you all about the papers you'd been reading, what kinds of issues you ran into reviewing other people's source code, and the what and why of the projects you were improving. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#59

Post by mk89 »

mk89 wrote: post #55
gbog wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why strange? Staying there when difficulties arise, future become incertain, keep working when it becomes boring or very messy or unrewarding, being able to do the work of the designer or the project manager because they are gone, all these are proofs that you are reliable and able. I would certainly choose such a guy for a senior position.

If you do it because you are loyal to the company and you are good at what you do, you MUST be promoted. If, on the other hand, you do it because you need a promotion and all you have to do is to wait, well... I don't have the numbers, I just know that people are human, and many humans seek the best opportunities with the least effort.

I think @gbog hit the nail on the head when he mentioned waiting. This is one of the most important non-technical skills you need to learn: patience.

Re: Ask HN: What non-technical skills make a senior dev and how to develop them?

#60

Post by sxg »

cname wrote: post #49
sxg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to talk about things that other people think are fun. The point is to bring up something that can get you excited and animated. If what you call "work" does that for you, then I'd love to hear about it.

You might like to hear about such things, but most people only want to hear about weekend activities they consider "fun" (e.g., going out drinking) or "normal" (e.g., doing stuff with the kids). If you say you spent the weekend learning something new, most people will act like you're boring and perhaps even make nasty comments like "you must be fun at parties" (like someone in this thread did).

Talking about normal/fun activities like you described are safe conversation topics that you can use with nearly anyone. If you don't know much about someone, then these topics are easy ways to get a conversation going and learn more about each other. Once you do know someone a bit better, you can tailor your conversations to more specific interests that you both share. A work colleague would probably be interested in talking about patches you submitted to open source projects or research papers that you read even though 99% of the general public probably wouldn't be interested.

I don't know exactly why the other commenter said "you must be fun at parties," but I'd imagine it's because the parent commenter deflected from talking about things he actually wanted to talk about. Being fun doesn't have much to do with the content of what you talk about. It has more to do with you showing genuine interest and excitement for the things you do. If you don't like watching movies or playing video games, then it's very difficult to have a fun conversation about those things. CiPHPerCoder listed four things he enjoys doing over his weekends. Those topics are definitely not mainstream, but they do overlap with my interests. I would love to have a conversation about those things with him because it also adds to the variety of conversations I get to have.

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