In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers • Hacker News Board

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#381

Post by nikdaheratik » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 3:40 AM UTC

nikdaheratik wrote: post #379

kristianc wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knowing, for example, that the Founding Fathers were all secular deists. Knowing that you're actually, like, 30 times more likely to shoot yourself than an intruder. Knowing that those fools out in Kansas are voting against their own self-interest and that the trouble is Kansas doesn't know any better. Knowing all the jokes that signal this knowledge. Doesn't Vox exist to perpetuate this kind of nonsense? It's unde…

I'm from Kansas. I grew up with these kinds of voters. The problem isn't that they "don't know any better". It's that the way the party system is aligned in the U.S., you can vote for one side that may help your economic situation but is pretty much in favor of everything you abhor socially, or you can vote for the other side that won't do much for you economically, but at least pretends to care about the same things…

Though maybe the Lib Dems are a bad example as they've swung further right and closer to the U.S. conservatives as time goes on.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#382

Post by nikdaheratik » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:16 AM UTC

dimino wrote: post #231

balls187 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your kids are your kids and it's your choice how to raise them. Full stop. No need to continue with the rest of your judgements. Parenting is a very hard job, and it's only made worse by all the parents (and even worse--non-parents) that want to make judgements. Being a parent, I now have a profound respect and appreciation for my parents (especially my mother). Things weren't always great, but they did the best th…

What kind of attitude is this, really? Is parenting some sacred thing, immune from analysis or criticism? Does parenting happen outside the realm of logic or reason, where all decisions are good, and any attempt at measurement or objectivity is worthless?

Maybe because most parents, especially new parents, already get enough of that "friendly advice" from strangers on the street, in the shops, at the park, and everywhere else.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#383

Post by mattbettinson » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:19 AM UTC

stevecalifornia wrote: post #46

I recently went to a McDonald's in Austria. I was blown away by how they were going exactly for the community center vibe. There was a bar with four or five internet connected tablets a half-basketball court next to the jungle gym and patio seating like you'd find at an upscale resteraunt. It also had a dedicated coffee and desert bar. Also, the cash registers were gone and in their place were four huge touchscreens…

There are lots of the touch screens in Ontario, Canada, in and around Toronto. Really neat.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#384

Post by FunctionalMan » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 4:34 AM UTC

Programmatic wrote: post #186

ciaranm wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthy food does have something to do with the amount of calories it contains. It's not the be-all or end-all, but if you're consuming less than you use, you'll lose weight. Weight is by far one of the largest risk factors for a huge number of medical conditions and problems, so I'd be amazed to hear how calories/nutritional content of food isn't related to health!

> It's not the be-all or end-all, but if you're consuming less than you use, you'll lose weight. I'm not really weighing in on one side or the other in terms of the overall argument, but unfortunately metabolisms are rather sneaky. Calories in < calories out = weight loss sounds nice, but unfortunately calories out is a moving target in that your metabolism will ratchet down and be more efficient and/or consume muscl…

Have you learned how to create matter from nothing? This is pure nonsense.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#385

Post by elcritch » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 5:37 AM UTC

762236 wrote: post #367

stcredzero wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People finding community of some form is not just a good thing, it's an essential thing to human life. It should always be lauded. However, there is a lot of socioeconomic and sub-cultural in-group/out-group judgement in US society, all of which feels absolutely justified by those doing the judging. http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberali... In reality, it's all exactly the same sort of crap that…

Professor Stearns at CMU says that the definition of morality is that which the lower classes and ethnic minorities are not (it adapts over time to maintain this separation). That explains lots of what you mention. He wrote The Battleground of Desire, which tracks the development of American morality since the Victorian era.

Professor's tend to have very narrow fields of study and often their views try to bend reality to fit through their particular field. In this case, it sounds like a somewhat standard (as in common place) form of Marxism -- wherein most all societal concerns are driven by classism (and ultimately economic concerns).

Hogwash. Now, Professor Stearns almost certainly has valid, well researched points which we could use to adjust certain policies, but humans are very much more than economic creatures , though it seems like we forget this readily nowadays in the US. This also means there are many more factors influencing American societal and mores than class divides. There's many strong cultural factors driving various network effects and topologies which require more complex analysis to understand. E.g. trying to use a first level "approximation" will fail to rationally understand our society. Besides in places like California even the idea of a white/Caucasian majority isn't even valid anymore.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#386

Post by cconcepts » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 5:44 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #76

smokey_the_bear wrote: post #6

McDonalds is the only restaurant I enjoy eating at with my 2 and 3 year olds. Every other restaurant is a slog to get through the meal. Honestly I'd eat there more often if it weren't for the social stigma of it. (I live in Berkeley). I am pretty sure the cheeseburger, apple slices, and chocolate milk are not much worse, and probably better, than the typical fare on a slapped together kids meal. When I was a kid, my…

People finding community of some form is not just a good thing, it's an essential thing to human life. It should always be lauded. However, there is a lot of socioeconomic and sub-cultural in-group/out-group judgement in US society, all of which feels absolutely justified by those doing the judging. http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberali... In reality, it's all exactly the same sort of crap that…

Its quite refreshing to hear you say that last sentence. Being labelled a bigot, self righteous or any of several other generalisations, because I believe Jesus was who he said he was, is a little hard to understand at times.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#387

Post by cconcepts » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 5:44 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #76

smokey_the_bear wrote: post #6

McDonalds is the only restaurant I enjoy eating at with my 2 and 3 year olds. Every other restaurant is a slog to get through the meal. Honestly I'd eat there more often if it weren't for the social stigma of it. (I live in Berkeley). I am pretty sure the cheeseburger, apple slices, and chocolate milk are not much worse, and probably better, than the typical fare on a slapped together kids meal. When I was a kid, my…

People finding community of some form is not just a good thing, it's an essential thing to human life. It should always be lauded. However, there is a lot of socioeconomic and sub-cultural in-group/out-group judgement in US society, all of which feels absolutely justified by those doing the judging. http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberali... In reality, it's all exactly the same sort of crap that…

Its quite refreshing to hear you say that last sentence. Being labelled a bigot, self righteous or any of several other generalisations, because I believe Jesus was who he said he was, is a little hard to understand at times.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#388

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 5:49 AM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #232

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #119

What astonishes me, is how often poor people go eating in a restaurant (e.g. breakfast in the first paragraph) when making breakfast at home (or lunch) is so much cheaper (as a fun exercise we often calculate the prices of our home lunch). Although I have a nice income, 80% of the time I bring my own food to work because restaurants are too expensive in my opinion to regularly use them. As a side note: I have the sus…

Cooking for yourself is only cheaper if you've already spent the money to outfit your kitchen. There's a big up front investment in terms of ingredients and tools. You can spend $50 up front, and then eat for $3/meal by cooking for yourself... Or you can just spend $6/meal at McDonalds. If you only have $10 in your pocket you really don't have much of a choice. This is, I think, the most important thing to understand…

Good point.

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#389

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 5:53 AM UTC

Naritai wrote: post #287

erikpukinskis wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooking for yourself is only cheaper if you've already spent the money to outfit your kitchen. There's a big up front investment in terms of ingredients and tools. You can spend $50 up front, and then eat for $3/meal by cooking for yourself... Or you can just spend $6/meal at McDonalds. If you only have $10 in your pocket you really don't have much of a choice. This is, I think, the most important thing to understand…

S/He also ignores the time invested in cooking. What must your hourly wage be, for the $3 saved by cooking to be worthwhile?

This assumes you can work 24h a day. It could be extended to every free hour: What must your your hourly wage be, that it's worth watching TV.

Also if you are poor and have no money, and no opportunity to earn more, and perhaps already have a second job, then $3 saved a day makes a huge difference. Though I'd say savings for 3 meals (lunch and breakfast and dinner) should be around $10 not $3 (at least from my experience comparing prices for cooking and going to McDonalds)

Re: In poor neighborhoods, McDonald’s have become de-facto community centers

#390

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Wed, Jun 15, 2016, 6:00 AM UTC

Nadya wrote: post #335

chrisper wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, cooking for only one person seems to me to be more expensive, because the ingredients don't really come in the size for only one person.

Even with 2 people - most ingredients I purchase are assuming 3-4 eaters the "large sizes" assume 6-8. If you don't eat leftovers it can get pricey or you end up eating more than you probably should... The other issue I run into is that most of my food goes bad before I even finish it coupled with the fact I refuse to even have "leftovers". I either buy too little of what I need (smaller amounts/sizes) and end up spe…

I have no problem for cooking for two people. But perhaps this is specific to Germany.

"throwing away 1/2 a loaf of bread"

I buy 1/2 not a whole bread then.

About the milk: Not sure if you buy fresh milk from the farm, otherwise milk in the fridge does not go bad for days.

Today we had a delicious lentil salad with feta and rucola and a vinaigrette of lemon and tomatoes. The base salad can easily be used 2 days in a row with different toppings with capers and olives and a different dressing. Should be around $3 per meal, whereas McDonalds is >$6 in Germany (the only way to eat cheap at McDonalds is having 3 hamburgers for $1 each).