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Apple File System

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Re: Apple File System

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, UDF is primarily targeted at one-time-recordable media. (It's used in DVDs, for example.) It's unclear how well it works for primary storage, but I suspect it's clumsy at best.

It's only got to beat FAT. That's a pretty low bar.

One that it doesn't meet. Try to read and understand the UDF spec sometime.

Re: Apple File System

#302
post #229

Hopefully this will be the end of .DS_Store and the crazy unicode normalization issue that causes mixups when rsync-roundtripping a directory structure between ext4 and HFS! :)

Unicode support on filesystems is just an ugly mess, and APFS is unlikely to fix this (the brief documentation doesn't mention it at all). Let's recap: - On OS X HFS+, filenames are stored using a "variant" of NFD, where some characters are precomposed "for compatibility with old Mac text encodings" ( https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/qa/qa1173/_index.htm... ). - On Windows NTFS, filenames are "opaque sequences…

So the main thing I've observed is rsync'ing web files from a linux server to an osx laptop, and back to the linux server, ends up with a bunch of duplicate decomposed utf8 filenames on the linux server. It can be avoided with careful use of rysnc's "--iconv=utf-8-mac,utf-8" etcetera, but it feels super-unnecessary. Fix it already :D

More details here http://serverfault.com/a/427200

PS: I've been using LC_CTYPE="whatever.ISO8859-1" and an ISO-8859-1 Terminal.app locale forever since I seem to keep dragging a bunch of legacy filenames around (having started on MS-DOS and FreeBSD 2.2) and ISO-8859-1 still seems to be the only locale that lets me "see the bytes" matrix-style instead of a random amount of "?" chars. Curiously, Finder.app seems to keep up very very well despite the odd encoding. Crossing my fingers the new APFS will act more like Linux.

PPS: Java is especially hilarious when launched with -Dfile.encoding=utf-8 as it is literally impossible to access some files from there.

And don't get me started on .DS_Store :P

Re: Apple File System

#303
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and Microsoft is far more willing than Apple to put effort into backwards compatibility.

I don't know about that. Apple switched processor architectures twice, and both times software written for the old arch ran on the new one. And when they replaced their entire operating system, they not only made it so you could still program against the old API—just recompile and go—they also made it possible to run the old OS inside the new one so you could still run apps that hadn't yet been recompiled.

And before that, when Apple made the 68k -> PPC transition in the mid-90s, they ran the whole system under a crazy, bizarre emulator that allowed for function-level interworking - 68k code could directly call PowerPC code, and vice versa. Early PowerPC systems were in fact running an OS that was mostly composed of 68k code; it wasn't until 1998 or 1999 (around the release of the iMac) that most of the Toolbox was ported to PowerPC.

Re: Apple File System

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Snapshots > If those can be sent: Finally Time Machine done right. If this ends up being true I can't wait—it's so frustrating watching tiny incremental backups take forever over the network. It seems like "Preparing" and "Cleaning up" take longer than moving the data.

it's so frustrating watching tiny incremental backups take forever over the network While waiting for APFS to become stable, buy Carbon Copy Cloner. $40. I love it. It's fundamentally rsync, but tailored to OS X. For personal use a single license covers an entire household. Every night CCC fires up on each laptop and each does an incremental clone to its own dedicated directory on my desktop machine. This clone is us…

Not trying to troll, but I see so many HN comments about backups and I just don't have this need anymore. What are people using traditional backup software like time machine, carbon copy cloner, etc. for on their laptop these days?

I use google docs for all my docs and spreadsheets, occasionally I use excel or word or keynote for files but if I do I save the docs to my dropbox or google drive folder, I have my photos synced with google photos, my music is synced through itunes match (or I can sync my music library files to dropbox, or use spotify), all my code is in git repos pushed to github or bitbucket.

What else is there to back up? Is it a matter of not wanting to re-install apps manually to get your computer back to its current state? Or is it a matter of not wanting to pay for the extra storage space on dropbox?

Re: Apple File System

#305
post #161

The spartan description of APFS certainly sounds like the (partial) feature list for ZFS--the comparisons made in the comments here are on-point. ZFS though took around 5 years to ship and, arguably, another 5-10 to get right. I say this having shipped multiple products based on ZFS, writing code in ZFS, and diagnosing production problems with it. On-disk consistency ("crash protection"), snapshots, encryption, and t…

File systems take A LONG time to stabilize, and you want them stabilized well, because if there is a bug in httpd, you just restart it, if there is a bug in filesystem you loose your data. See BTRFS. Started in 2007 and it is still not stable enough to be supported in RHEL (and for good reasons). So, of course, Apple engineers are way better than the rest of the world and they have magical pixie dust which makes bugs disappear, so they will fix bugs way faster than anybody else. Not.

Re: Apple File System

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Snapshots > If those can be sent: Finally Time Machine done right. If this ends up being true I can't wait—it's so frustrating watching tiny incremental backups take forever over the network. It seems like "Preparing" and "Cleaning up" take longer than moving the data.

it's so frustrating watching tiny incremental backups take forever over the network While waiting for APFS to become stable, buy Carbon Copy Cloner. $40. I love it. It's fundamentally rsync, but tailored to OS X. For personal use a single license covers an entire household. Every night CCC fires up on each laptop and each does an incremental clone to its own dedicated directory on my desktop machine. This clone is us…

18 years ago, while being a teenager, I misconfigured CCC only to find out that only the active user folders where synced after a full erase/reinstall upgrade of MacOS.

This was my epic "there is to kind of people those who lost data and those who will loose data" story. All my dad and mum files where gone, luckily nothing professional and no pictures (analog camera still ruled back then).

This is just a reminder that no tool is ever perfect. CCC is great, TimeMachine is sluggish but "dumbproof" to a certain extend (but you have to keep faith in a black box).

Personally I'm pretty paranoid so I perform my monthly off-site backup by rebooting my Mac on recovery partition and I perform a full disc copy to an external drive using DiskUtils (because ultimately this will be the recovery tools I'll use if things goes bad so I need to use my off-site backup...).

It really sluggish so I run it while sleeping. I get that for professionals with more than 1To you will need to get to some more serious stuff anyway.

Re: Apple File System

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's so frustrating watching tiny incremental backups take forever over the network While waiting for APFS to become stable, buy Carbon Copy Cloner. $40. I love it. It's fundamentally rsync, but tailored to OS X. For personal use a single license covers an entire household. Every night CCC fires up on each laptop and each does an incremental clone to its own dedicated directory on my desktop machine. This clone is us…

Not trying to troll, but I see so many HN comments about backups and I just don't have this need anymore. What are people using traditional backup software like time machine, carbon copy cloner, etc. for on their laptop these days? I use google docs for all my docs and spreadsheets, occasionally I use excel or word or keynote for files but if I do I save the docs to my dropbox or google drive folder, I have my photos…

I agree cloud based backups like Dropbox just sync in the background. Got any souce code store it in Github or Bitbucket.

Documents and source code doesn't take up much space. Unless you want music and video files which iTunes can always sync for you to your Apple mobile device.

I use a USB hard drive to back up my Thunderbird and Firefox profiles. Also my downloads and other stuff too big for Dropbox. $100 for a 4T USB 3.0 hard drive is cheap.

Re: Apple File System

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crap driver? It's not a 'driver', and smb has been natively supported for at least 8-10 years. It hasn't sucked in a looong time either. In fact recent OS versions have defaulted to smb v2 for file sharing.

I believe when they flipped the switch to default to SMB it was actually to SMB 3 in 10.10. Anecdotally, I'd always found AFP in the Tiger and Leopard days to be faster than whichever version of SMB support was included at the time. Now I use the default SMB3 and it seems that 802.11ac and gigabit are bottlenecks (of course its 10 years later in the times of SSD's as well)

Apple deprecated AFP and switched to SMB2 by default in Mavericks/10.9 (https://www.apple.com/media/us/osx/2013/docs/OSX_Mavericks_C...). AFP was used only for Time Machines and connections to older Macs.

And it wasn't just anecdotally faster; I worked for a storage company specializing in Mac workflows and AFP was empirically several times faster, especially on 1GbE and 10GbE networks. This was in part due to Apple ditching Samba in Lion/10.7 (http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/03/23/inside_mac_os_x_10...) over GPL concerns and replaced it with their own shitty, incomplete implementation, which they didn't get up to Samba's standards until 10.10.

I remember this being excruciating since customers had to either buy a third-party SMB implementation like DAVE to get any value out of 10GbE connections, or hope that the applications they wanted to use over the network supported AFP.

Re: Apple File System

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's so frustrating watching tiny incremental backups take forever over the network While waiting for APFS to become stable, buy Carbon Copy Cloner. $40. I love it. It's fundamentally rsync, but tailored to OS X. For personal use a single license covers an entire household. Every night CCC fires up on each laptop and each does an incremental clone to its own dedicated directory on my desktop machine. This clone is us…

Not trying to troll, but I see so many HN comments about backups and I just don't have this need anymore. What are people using traditional backup software like time machine, carbon copy cloner, etc. for on their laptop these days? I use google docs for all my docs and spreadsheets, occasionally I use excel or word or keynote for files but if I do I save the docs to my dropbox or google drive folder, I have my photos…

- Some people don't want to use the cloud to store their stuff for privacy / ethic / commercial / legal reasons.

- Some others have been burnt by the cloud failing them (corruption, data loss, copyright abuse, etc) and want an additional layer of security.

- There are many activities that are fully not covered by the cloud, such as 3D / video / music edition, art in general, programming (all those dev envs)...

- You may want / need to be able to be able to recover from a dataloss even if you are offline.

- Some file types don't match the cloud sync paradigm very well such as system and configurations, non online game saves and all stuff that needs to be at a precise place on the system.

- You got stuff you want to manipulate as files in dirs, not as an entry into app. Power users usually dislike the loss of control and freedom the apps imply.

- You like to have 3 backup because of the rule "one on site, on off site".

- You like to have all your backups at the same place.

- You have collections off files that just don't fit in the cloud, such as Tera of Videos.

- Sex tapes still need to be backed up, and you won't send that to your dropbox.

- Some people still have a shitty internet connections and can't sync reliably.

- It's less work to manage one backup than to setup all the parameters of all those apps to be sure they sync only what you want.

- You read the licence for some sync plateform and couldn't decently click "I accept".

- You got a NAS at home on which you plug your hard drive with the backups for the whole familly.

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