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Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

engineering.stanford.edu

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Re: Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

#31

Post by ElijahLynn »

swalsh wrote: post #2

I have a way to make it better. I think combining old-fashioned checks and balances, with technology controls can make online voting about as secure as it is today (maybe more) and anonymous. To make it anonymous, its really just a password. When a user registers to vote, they create an online account. On the days that a user votes, they log into their account and create a ballot. They then create a password for the…

http://www.openvotingconsortium.org/our_solution

Stops Secrecy in Vote Tabulation: OVC has a team of scientists ready to program computer software for voting machines and electoral tabulation that would be publicly owned or open source. Open source software could be checked by any party or group by hiring a capable computer programmer.

Provides Paper Trail: The OVC recommended procedure for tabulating elections relies on a paper ballot that is then fed through a scanner into a locked ballot box so that all originals are saved in case of the need for a recount or audit (See Sample Ballot).

Scientifically Verifiable: In addition to open source voting machine and tabulation software, the Open Voting Consortium is also working on a database checklist for standard practices in vote tabulation that would assure transparency and accountability. Some aspects of the OVC concept will soon be enfolded into California legislation.

Saves Money: Typical voting machines cost between $2,000 and $3,000, but OVC open source software could be run on any personal computer (PC) and ballots could be printed on a normal printer. OVC envisions PCs with tamper-proof cases as the new voting terminals at a savings of hundreds or thousands of dollars per terminal.(See page on OVC Cost Analysis).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8CSKdMTARY OVC at LinuxWorld 2008

Re: Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

#32

Post by ccvannorman »

Maybe OT, but why is one of the requirements for a better voting system "anonymous"? What's wrong with a voting system in which every citizen's vote is transparent and available? Seems like it would be much less susceptible to fraud and easier to audit that way. I don't see a problem with anyone seeing how I voted!

Maybe I am missing something?

Re: Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

#33

Post by jagbolanos »

jagbolanos wrote: post #26
RangerScience wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any solution where I can verify my vote, but someone can't coerce me into showing them?

Yes, with end-to-end voting you can be certain that your vote wasn't modified but you can't prove to someone whom you voted for https://www.cs.jhu.edu/~sdoshi/index_files/randomness_paper.... Using interactive proofs you can know that the machine won't modify your vote, and using zero-knowledge proofs plus a distributed key you can decrypt and randomize, being certain that votes haven't been lost and without revealin…

Natanael_L I just skimmed through it but will read it later today. I worked on a prototype earlier this year implementing the blockchain part, not secure yet, specially it doesn't implement the end-to-end encryption. Anyhow you can read about it here and there is a link to the video of the prototype https://medium.com/@jagbolanos/votosocial-org-towards-an-e-v...

Re: Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

#34

Post by Dove »

ccvannorman wrote: post #32

Maybe OT, but why is one of the requirements for a better voting system "anonymous"? What's wrong with a voting system in which every citizen's vote is transparent and available? Seems like it would be much less susceptible to fraud and easier to audit that way. I don't see a problem with anyone seeing how I voted! Maybe I am missing something?

In a system where your vote can be verified, you can be coerced into voting a certain way.

Re: Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

#35

Post by magicfractal »

ccvannorman wrote: post #32

Maybe OT, but why is one of the requirements for a better voting system "anonymous"? What's wrong with a voting system in which every citizen's vote is transparent and available? Seems like it would be much less susceptible to fraud and easier to audit that way. I don't see a problem with anyone seeing how I voted! Maybe I am missing something?

It enables candidates purchasing votes

Re: Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

#37

Post by vacri »

ElijahLynn wrote: post #29
jacquesm wrote: post #14

Some of the people behind 'wijvertrouwenstemcomputersniet' (we do not trust voting computers) are active in the CCC and have some pretty good arguments on why electronic voting really is a danger to democracy. https://www.ccc.de/en/tags/wahlcomputer The link between electronic voting and online voting is a strong one and one would expect the online voting situation to be far more suspect to all kinds of trickery than…

I agree with some of the arguments against online voting. However, it isn't really realistic to do re-counts right now, nor do people do them regularly. If the people doing the counting are bought then that is an issue too. Both ways suck right now. One thing that I would like to see is an open source, standardized system though. There was/is an effort towards this right now. http://www.openvotingconsortium.org/our_s…

> However, it isn't really realistic to do re-counts right now, nor do people do them regularly.

Australia uses paper ballots, and every election there's a seat or two somewhere that there's a recount. The major parties get their volunteers[0] to scrutinise the officials as they count as well, so you have multiple opposing interests scrutinising the actual count. Every vote basically gets at least three pairs of eyeballs on it. The officials and the watchers observe the ballot boxes all the way from the booths to the counting areas. It's difficult to come up with a more robust way of doing an actual public election, though there are some minor drawbacks.

And as far as I'm aware, this system is actually cheaper (per capita) than the US electronic systems. I imagine the 'low tech' nature is where a lot of savings happen - little need for technical skills.

[0]'Scrutineering' is boring as hell, but parties already lean heavily on their volunteers, what's one more thing?

Re: Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

#38

Post by [deleted] »

ccvannorman wrote: post #32

Maybe OT, but why is one of the requirements for a better voting system "anonymous"? What's wrong with a voting system in which every citizen's vote is transparent and available? Seems like it would be much less susceptible to fraud and easier to audit that way. I don't see a problem with anyone seeing how I voted! Maybe I am missing something?

[deleted]

Re: Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

#39

Post by pdkl95 »

Andrew Appel (CS Prof. at Princeton) gave a very good talk about the problems of voting systems and why internet voting is a terrible idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abQCqIbBBeM

The secret ballot with counting observed by all parties is a technology that evolved out of necessity over hundreds of years. Adding more technology adds complexity which is the same as adding more attack surface.

Re: Why Online Voting Is a Danger to Democracy

#40

Post by ccvannorman »

ccvannorman wrote: post #32

Maybe OT, but why is one of the requirements for a better voting system "anonymous"? What's wrong with a voting system in which every citizen's vote is transparent and available? Seems like it would be much less susceptible to fraud and easier to audit that way. I don't see a problem with anyone seeing how I voted! Maybe I am missing something?

Thanks for those (other comments) - it seems obvious in retrospect. As someone whose vote cannot be bought these things don't occur to me. :-)
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